 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Connor1700
Date: 2023-11-06 06:47
The thread about the low F "correction" key prompted this question.
I'm sure it's been discussed, but I'm being lazy tonight......
Does an Oehler system clarinet have issues with lower F? Does it have gremlins that Boehm doesn't, and vise versa?
I've never played the Oehler system horn, so I'm totally ignorant; but would like to hear opinions.
Thanks!
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-11-06 08:39
I don't think Michael Lowenstern mentioned the Boehm/Oehler difference directly. Boehm (who came up with flute and clarinet mechanical improvements) wanted Boehm to be less key oriented and allow for faster technique by requiring just a little more "tuning on the fly" by the musician. Therefore the middle B and the C just above it are tuned slightly high and the low F and E are slightly low.
The original clarinet.......and Oehler clarinets are tuned correctly across the "break." This leaves the low F and Low E a bit more flat. In most of the horns that are not top of the line these notes are left to be played softly at best to have a fighting chance of being in tune. On the top of the line professional horns, they are all equipped with thumb trigger that opens a large tone hole on the bell which corrects for the the Low E and Low F.
https://wurlitzerklarinetten.de/clarinets/?lang=en
scroll down and see the 100a and lesser models have no vent on the bell. The 100c does as well as a "special" version of one of the more intermediately priced models
https://www.gerold-klarinetten.at/en/solista-darte/
You can click on the up down arrows to the right to turn the clarinet and see the big pad on the bell as well as the thumb trigger.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Jarmo Hyvakko
Date: 2023-11-06 14:01
By the way, Boehm system was not developed by the flute maker Theobald Boehm. It was developed by Hyacinthe Klosé and Auguste Buffet. They adapted from Boehm the idea of ring keys. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boehm_system_(clarinet)
Jarmo Hyvakko, Principal Clarinet, Tampere Philharmonic, Finland
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-11-07 19:17
If Theobald Boehm had redesigned the clarinet, he'd have probably changed many of the tonehole sizes to make them more uniform and made it a fully vented instrument like the flute. The only aspect the Klose-Buffet 'Boehm' system clarinet has which can be attributed to Boehm are the ring keys and especially the long Bb fingering (Sp. Th. xoo|xoo).
What is funny is I know some players, both students and teachers who don't even use long Bb as a fingering and looked puzzled when I asked them to check their long Bb after I'd serviced or overhauled their clarinets. In some ways it made me think "Why did I bother?" if they're not even going to make use of the main aspect that has earnt it the name 'Boehm system'. Has also got to be said they looked perplexed when I asked them to check the throat Bb as they'd also never heard that term.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Wookie001
Date: 2023-11-08 06:56
I live in Germany, and the first clarinet I ever tried was a Schreiber Oehler System. many German clarinet teachers say Oehler sounds much better than the French clarinet, but I totally disagree. I like the sweet and singing sound of Buffet clarinets
It's pretty hard to bend the tone on Oehler clarinets, they aren't really made for that. also French clarinets are much more comfortable to play in my opinion. I've been playing one for a few years now, and wouldn't play German system again. There is a reason why the French system is being played all around the world.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-11-08 08:02
Personally I think the reason the French clarinet is played worldwide is World War II.
The greatest aspect of the German clarinet is it's ability to blend so well with flute and oboe. I agree it feels different. I always felt the German clarinets feel "flat and wide" (under the fingers) whereas the Boehm feels "narrow and tall."
..........Paul Aviles
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Author: oliver sudden
Date: 2023-11-11 21:59
Surely the French system was already used far more worldwide before World War II? Or am I missing something?
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-11-12 04:46
There was a LOT more German influence.......before the war. I'm thinking for example of players like Lindeman of the Chicago Symphony who played German system clarinets. But once there was the stigma associated with "German," and you had the chance to choose which way to go, you probably chose French.
One way to peer into the culture of the time is to view some of the Warner Brothers cartoons from the war era. For many years those were NOT shown publicly for what are obvious reasons. However, more and more are out there now. I'd think you could view them through YouTube.
..............Paul Aviles
Post Edited (2023-11-12 04:50)
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2023-11-13 22:36
Connor1700 wrote:
> The thread about the low F "correction" key prompted this
> question.
>
> I'm sure it's been discussed, but I'm being lazy tonight......
>
> Does an Oehler system clarinet have issues with lower F? Does
> it have gremlins that Boehm doesn't, and vise versa?
>
> I've never played the Oehler system horn, so I'm totally
> ignorant; but would like to hear opinions.
>
> Thanks!
Like you the "F" correction key thread piqued my interest. From my very cursory research I found out that wind instruments open at one end, which are cylindrical, of which I'd imagine both Boehm and Oehler insrtuments are classified, operate on 12ths, while instruments while conical ones operate on the octave.
So I'd imagine that positioning of the register (not octave) key on either type of clarinet might still face the same tuning issues, and find them accentuated more, the further a tone hole lies from the register key (to wit: low F, middle C).
While a clarinet's internals may be cylindrical in design, I don't mean to imply that this cylinder is of fixed size. The polycylindrical bore, I believe developed by Buffet on the original R13, was one inspired by desire to address tuning issues between notes.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-11-13 22:45
Actually the tuning issues become more accentuated the further the notes are from fourth space E. You can "hold" a clarion register while releasing the register key. You'll find no difference to pitch whether the register is open or closed on fourth line E, however as you move up and down from that note, you'll find the register raises the pitch more and more. The greatest affect is on the clarion high C (two ledgers above the staff).
Rather odd.
And......would any of you physicists like to take on the flute? I don't really see much that is conical about the flute and yet it plays octaves. Why is that????
...........Paul Aviles
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-11-14 00:24
Flutes aren't stopped pipes like clarinets and overblow the harmonic series in the normal manner (1,2,3,4) whereas clarinets behave like panpipes (stopped at one end) and overblow the odd harmonics (1,3,5,7).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Luuk ★2017
Date: 2023-11-14 13:25
The register hole acts as a small leak in the bore, forcing a pressure node to develop in the standing wave in the bore, at the register hole's location.
However, each frequency has different locations of its standing wave nodes, but the register tube is fixed. Thus, the location of the register tube matches only one 'ideal' node location. Frequencies with a pressure node at this location will be fine, but a node of a standing wave located nearby the register tube will be more or less 'pulled' in the direction of the register tube, thus influencing the frequency of the standing wave.
Try this: play B4 with traditional fingering RT 123E|123F. Now play the same note without the register key but with the trill key second from above at the upper right (the keys normally operated with your right hand first finger - open the trill key with your right thumb - you need to rest the clarinet on your knees). This trill hole is more or less located at the ideal register tube location for B4. The resulting note will feel very different from the traditional one (result depends on the clarinet). Also, try the same trick with C5 and the most upper trill key.
The mismatch of the location of the register tube for almost all frequencies except one is a problem for all instruments relying on this mechanism, oehler clarinets included, and not only clarinets.
A solution is to introduce more than one register tube, as may commonly be seen on the oboe, the saxophone and bass clarinets. This does not solve the problem completely, but makes the mechanism complex.
Please note that location of the register tube, polycylindrical designs etc. only present second or lower order deviations from the basic idea: a cylindical tube, closed at one end. For an introduction see https://newt.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/clarinetacoustics.html
Regards,
Luuk
Philips Symphonic Band
The Netherlands
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