 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-10-03 18:10
Hi,
I wondered if I could ask a question that has sprung off from Fuzzy's thread about listening to recordings of great masters?
I have this family clarinet that was made in about 1918, and was played by a professional player in Edinburgh, more or less until is disintegrated, before my Granny then bought it secondhand in 1958.
I just wondered if anybody on the forum might be able to remember what is was like to be in the dance halls of the 50s and what especially it would be like to be a jobbing clarinetist at that time?
I get this sense that people then didn't have to compete with spotify and youtube, and the internet, and constant tv-on demand.
They probably also didn't worry so much about gear and practise and excellence, because they were being paid to crack out dance tunes by the hour, for really a lot of hours each week.
People perhaps weren't staring at those players, and dissecting their performance either, because the people were getting on and enjoying themselves and dancing. I really like the idea of a world like that.
I wondered if anybody would have a minute to take a walk down memory lane and talk about what that was like?
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Author: lydian
Date: 2023-10-03 18:48
I'm far too young for a story from that time. But I do play in a couple of bands that perform that very same music in dance halls today. Everybody in the band is very true to the style of that time, and we also dress the part, as do most of the dancers. I personally find it very exhilarating to see everybody respond to what you're playing. The energy from the dancers seems to supercharge the band. There's a kind of feedback loop, the more the dancers respond, the better we play. It's a fantastic feeling. I imagine it was much the same at the time, with the same tunes and same kind of dancing.
I'd love to hear some stories from back in the day.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-10-03 19:06
Hi Lydian,
Thanks you very much for saying about that. Would it be okay to ask what tunes you play, and if you could tell us more?
I wonder if I could write an arrangment for my family to play together, it would be great to know an easy tune to start with.
The positive feedback between audience and band sounds wonderful.
It all sounds brilliant.
Thanks!
Jennifer
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Author: lydian
Date: 2023-10-03 19:56
We have about 800 charts in our book, everything from stock charts from the 20s and 30s to big band charts through the 50s and beyond. The 50s stuff would be things like Sinatra, Duke, Basie, Ella, Kenton, Goodman, Dizzy.
What's the instrumentation for your family band? Duke had some great stuff for 3 clarinets that my band plays, like The Mooche, but that's from way back in the 20s. Still holds up though. Of course there's lots of great Goodman charts for clarinets/saxes, mostly 30s and 40s though, like Stompin At The Savoy or Woody Herman's Woodchoppers Ball. By the 50s, there's less clarinet and simpler harmony in the reed section. So the older tunes (pre-50s) would probably work best for you. All of it is still roughly swing era.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-10-03 20:38
Hi Lydian,
That really sounds great. I have heard of a lot of those people and I think my husband and son would really enjoy them. They mostly listen to jazz and swing on spotify, which I sort of think is maybe the same? Sorry I know I'm meant to know that. I listen to jazz on youtube, but it never occurred to me that we could actually play things like that.
In our family we have my husband and me on piano and clarinet. We both play grade 3-ish from sheet music, but a bit tenatively and both accident prone. My son is on a 4.3 marimba, and he prefers to extemporise harmony, which he does with great gusto and a tack sharp sense of timing. Sometimes he also breaks off to play the wall, which makes it feel much more exciting, and like proper music.
The music that we listen to a lot here is Pamplemouse, and Stephan Grappelli, and Flanders and Swann. I'm almost completely certain that we are living in the wrong century.
Would it be okay to ask what a "chart" is?
Adult learner, Grade 3
Equipment: Yamaha Custom CX Bb, Fobes 10K CF mp,
Legere Soprano Sax American Cut #2, Vandoren Optimum German Lig.
Post Edited (2023-10-03 20:41)
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Author: lydian
Date: 2023-10-03 21:47
chart = sheet music
You’ve got pretty much the same instrumentation as Goodman’s quartet. So just look that up on YouTube and find something you like, then get a lead sheet for it, probably from a fakebook. That would be a much better fit than trying to re-arrange a big band chart.
It’s funny, when I first started playing in big bands in the 70s, we played mostly contemporary stuff like Buddy Rich and Maynard. Then as time went on, we’d reach further back into the swing era and all the way back to the 20s. I’m playing older music today than I ever did in my youth. I have to resist the urge to play bebop lines in my solos since bebop didn’t exist back then. I’ve been listening to a lot of Bix for bass lines and solo ideas for my bass sax playing in my trad jazz combo.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-10-03 22:38
Gosh! You're right. It's just like us, but going at 40x the speed of sound. I'll do some digging and choose something that we might manage. Moonglow seems good. Thanks for that.
You must really know a lot about all these bands to be able to lay your finger on a group like that at a moment's notice. I really had no idea that such a combination existed. Wow!
Adult learner, Grade 3
Equipment: Yamaha Custom CX Bb, Fobes 10K CF mp,
Legere Soprano Sax American Cut #2, Vandoren Optimum German Lig.
Post Edited (2023-10-03 22:47)
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Author: lydian
Date: 2023-10-04 01:31
Well I've studied and performed this music for decades. Sometimes a little bit sinks in and sticks. Ask me something about classical, and I'm completely useless. Glad I was able to point you in the right direction. Have fun bringing out your inner Benny Goodman.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-10-04 02:35
Hi Lydian,
It's really interesting to know what you do. I always got the sense that you really knew your stuff, but didn't know what your specialist area was.
I'd be really interested to know more if you had a minute to start some threads of your own.
I'm coming to music late, and am largely a blank slate, but very interested to learn.
Jennifer
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-10-04 15:29
Hi Lydian,
Thank you for a magical moment of imagining what you described....How fantastic to play that period in a dance hall dressed accordingly . I love the celebration of cultural history and those who carry forwards the torch. I feel we need more of that in these somewhat rudderless times, so keep the art and magic going and the people dancing.
I'm going to cherish that thought !
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2023-10-04 15:49
In the late 50's and early 60's I played in several very amateur jazz bands in the south of England. I was in the R.A.F at the time, but as long as your evening pursuits didn't affect your job performance all was well. Mostly the bands were playing in pubs and village halls, and mostly we just made beer money.
At that time there were a lot of these bands in the UK, and once you were known around the bands locally you could be pretty sure of getting a blow if you introduced yourself between sets and casually mentioned that you had your instrument in the car.
Mostly we played the traditional/dixieland standards, with a generous helping of Bechet. The big names in that genre in Britain at that time were Chris Barber, Ken Colyer, Akker Bilk, Terry Lightfoot, The Temperence 7, Humphrey Lyttleton, Monty Sunshine, Tubby Hayes et al.
It was a lot of fun, playing very long gigs in rooms where the air was so laden with cigarette smoke that you couldn't see the back of the room.
Tony F.
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Author: Chris_C ★2017
Date: 2023-10-04 15:51
We had a player (now deceased) in our wind band who ran a small dance band in the 50s/60s. One of his claims to fame was playing one dance hall every night for a year. He said the main requirement was "no gaps between numbers", so when the "relief band" came on between their sets the new pianist slid along the piano stool to take over seamlessly from his pianist.
Playing for 1000 dancers before the invention of PA systems meant he could play sax and clarinet extremely loudly!
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Author: lydian
Date: 2023-10-04 19:29
In the 90s there was a brief revival of swing dancing in the US. My big band(s) played a lot of shows for young people learning and appreciating that music. Then it kind of fizzled out after a few years. More recently, we've been playing for monthly swing dance classes which consist of a little instruction before the show, then 2-3 hours of solid playing for maybe a hundred dancers in all on a good night. I can't imagine a thousand.
Those are the most fun shows. Most of our other shows consist of a few dozen octogenarians in the audience trying to stay awake. Big bands pretty much died out for good in the 70s after a long decline and have been on life support ever since, with the few exceptions of Michael Bublé, Gordon Goodwin, etc. But we still have a blast playing this music even if there aren't many listeners left.
I am having pretty good success with my trad jazz combo (where I play bass sax, soprano sax, clarinet and trumpet), as there seems to be an appetite for 20s/30s music and nostalgia of late, thanks possibly to groups like Tuba Skinny and The Nighthawks. It's not swing era like you're interested in, but still really fun to play as most tunes are at blazing fast tempos and high energy.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-10-04 20:47
That's amazing to realise how intense it was playing for big dance halls. I hadn't realised that the numbers would be so huge or that bands would be working shifts like that to keep going without a break. I love the smooth piano shift-change maneouvre.
The volume required explains a lot about my old clarinet. It has a funny mouthpiece, that I find very hard to play in the normal 45 degree position. But if I hold it straight out like a trumpet, it becomes very free blowing, and then it makes a noise like a jet engine. I demonstrated to my teacher once, and he nearly fell of his piano stool and then said very politely "Don't do that again."
Hearing about the long hours and intense workload explains a lot about my clarinet too. It really looks as though the man played it to the brink of total disintegration, and I always wondered why it was like that. It makes a lot more sense now.
Lydian - it's great to hear you talk of the modern swing events. I have a friend who travels all over the world to go to swing events, and I'm sure he'd love the ones you're running. He's a computer guy who travels for work really, but also for swing dancing.
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2023-10-04 20:54
Lydian,
I bet we know some of the same folks! I'd love to hear more about your trad jazz stuff - feel free to e-mail me off-list if you're interested.
Perhaps you know...but for the sake of others...Glenn Crytzer is still having some success with "big band" too (he's trying to fund a new club in Times Square (Cafe Metronome), so he's been a bit quiet on the music production side this year). He put out a great Christmas album a couple years back (Underneath the Mistletoe). From my understanding, his new club will be aimed at big band and trad jazz - along with era-appropriate clothing/dancers.
Fuzzy
;^)>>>
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Author: ElizabethMH
Date: 2023-10-06 16:55
So glad to see this thread -not exactly big band of the 40s/50s, but check out Alex Mendham and his Orchestra - ragtime to 1930s songs. The are UK based. Just saw them play last Saturday (at Saffron Hall,no less, SunnyDaze). The principal clarinetist was excellent. They played Rhapsody in Blue at the end of the concert, which was a bonus!
They played The Mooch as well.
www.alexmendham.com
Elizabeth
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2023-10-07 02:33
Elizabeth,
Thanks for the reminder about Alex. I remember stumbling across some of his YouTube videos four years or so ago.
It also reminded me of the "Chicago Stompers" from about that same time: Here's a production video that they did really well with: Tappin' the Barrel
The Alex Mendham video that introduced me to Alex was with the Dunlop Sisters - He's the Last Word
Fuzzy
;^)>>>
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Author: kilo
Date: 2023-10-07 05:25
I was lucky enough to get in on the tail end of the "live music, dancing, BYOB" era, and I played tenor n a swing band bi-weekly in the summers and monthly in the winters for a few years. There were lots of dance class students and often some pretty good older dancers who knew the Lindy and all the jitterbug moves. It was pretty cool. We mostly played "stocks" (often with suggested solo parts written in!)
Almost all of the old Grange Halls and Legion Halls had a regular clientele which you began to recognize after a while. Three generations of one family all plodding in on a hot Saturday night with brown paper bags and coolers filled with six-packs of beer. The scent of trouble and the reported fight in the parking lot. The "Circle Dance" where you'd end up with a random partner. Good times.
It all came to a screeching halt once the state got serious about enforcing newly-passed laws concerning "driving under the influence" in the early '80s. Any checkpoint within a half mile of the club could detain, question, and arrest drunk drivers and carousing passengers. Look, in the larger scheme, this suppression was all for the good; I'm just pointing out that it also ended up putting a huge damper on village-level live music performers and venues.
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Author: donald
Date: 2023-10-07 11:04
You had a pretty good chance of getting lung cancer. Not only was smoking prevalent, 2nd hand smoke was unavoidable.
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-10-07 13:14
My father had a drinking buddy in Greece back in the late 60s ( a retired brain surgeon). One night they staggered out of the taverna together and the guy went to drive home in his little car, but was having trouble getting his key in the ignition.Meanwhile a couple of policemen wandered up and seeing this, hastened to perform their civic duty by reaching into the vehicle to start the engine for him.They then watched in fascination as the guy lurched off along the curb untill he rear ended the next parked car further down the street.The two policemen then doubled up laughing . In those days in Greece, listening to Theodorkis was illegal as that was considered a threat to society,but driving under the influence was just a human right.
Nothing to do will Dance Halls admittedly.....but how things change with the times! Some things lost and some things gained.
( I am definitely NOT condoning driving under the influence as part of these reflections.)
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-10-07 14:02
That's really interesting. When I watch films like "pleasantvile" and some documentaries, I get the impression that everything was better then. It's nice to know that something are better now too.
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-10-07 16:09
Well today we all have cars and smartphones....but those are now bad things and so we're going to have to ween ourselves off them.
" Yes Sir !...... I'm on my second week of smartphone abuse therapy......They dose us with Ouzo and we have to ride bicycles around a compound listening to Theodorakis.......If you can play the clarinet while riding around in circles then they'll let you out of here sooner ."
Well !....just offering something fun to look forwards to...Ha-ha !
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: kilo
Date: 2023-10-07 18:06
Quote:
Not only was smoking prevalent, 2nd hand smoke was unavoidable.
Yup. I'd open up my case the next day and could still smell the lingering odor of tobacco.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-10-07 19:23
Hi Julian,
I think you may have hit the nail on the head there. We are literally riding bikes round the block here to try to wean ourselves off screentime.
At least I now know it's better than going to a dance and fighting/smoking/drinking. I'll enjoy that thought as I try to play Moonlight Seranade later. :-)
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Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2023-10-11 06:49
Interesting thought.
My history goes back to the beginning of jobbing bands. My first teacher came out of the Paul Whiteman Orchestra, left that with Joe Venuti to play his band. He settled in Chicago, where he jobbed the rest of his life. He shared all his stories, and introduced me to jobbing myself.
First - nobody could be a slouch. It was, and still is a professional world. The playing was top notch, and the players were monsters, or they received bus fare home. In my playing, which was ‘1970’s and beyond - it was a lot of territory bands, and some of the remaining big bands of the past. Taking a job with a new band meant your sight reading has to be perfect, intonation has to be perfect. Doubles have to be perfect.
So yes - we could have a lot of fun, but better be able to handle the gig.
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-10-11 12:06
People tend to regard the life of a professional musician as glamorous....They see the parade dressed soldiers defending the noble cause. But the true job description tends to involve a lot of blood, sweat and tears to defend that cause for us.
But it's out of that selective element that the best musical talents and performances have no doubt been born.
It's one of the great magic tricks, but it seems to have largly resulted in a world in which professional musicians are not fairly rewarded economically speaking for what they offer society.
Thank god for those who follow their calling against the odds and in spite of all the sacrifices.
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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