 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2023-08-20 18:26
Hi All,
I made a comment at the end of a recent post in the form of a PS. Here is that text.
PS **ATTENTION ALL READERS** I pleasantly noted that this thread has stayed on topic all the way through. All too often posts tend to drift seriously from the original subject. I find that trend to be not only annoying but counterproductive to really getting solid feedback on the initial posting. **STAY ON TOPIC, OR START A NEW THREAD**
On some BBs, you may get away with "hijacking a thread" and changing the subject. On others, a strong rebuke from a moderator follows (how do I know? I did it just once on another woodwind BBoard).
So, my good friends, do you see hijacking threads as a problem? Or do you think it's OK?
HRL
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-08-20 19:01
Hi Hank,
I reckon it would be enough to just politely ask people to move their diversion to another thread if they have drifted. Sometimes people don't realise.
Jennifer
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Author: Dibbs
Date: 2023-08-20 19:26
I have no opinion about hijacking threads but what are your favourite reeds?
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-08-20 19:53
Hi Hank,
I just found your comment on hijacking on the ATG system thread.
I didn't think it was a hijack since nobody had posted on the thread since 2021 so the thread was effectively finished. Also my comment seemed to be entirely on-topic going by the title.
I figured it would be less intrusive to tag my review on the end rather than create a whole new thread on what seemed like the same topic.
Would you have preferred a new thread?
Thanks,
Jennifer
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-08-20 22:04
I guess there may be two very distinct species inhabiting this Board. The Board itself began as a place to archive information that can be referenced ad infinitum by anyone looking for supplemental help to academics, or clarinet life in general (it's in the name I guess). But there is an immediacy and conversational aspect to this that is more like FaceBook, TicTok and Twitter for clarinet geeks. I kinda like that side of it, so when a topic "veers" it seems like the natural flow of good dinner conversation.
I guess if you're firmly in one camp, the other will drive you up the wall.
With all due respect
sorry
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: Connor1700
Date: 2023-08-21 01:40
I agree with Paul. Conversations branch off in all directions.... that's what a conversation is. My assessment is: if you don't like the flow of ideas and going off subject, maybe this isn't the bulletin board for you.
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2023-08-21 02:38
Hank, when you asked:
1) Do I see hijacking threads as a problem? It all depends... if the hijacking truly is a slow drift with information that either interests me or informs me, then, no, I don't see it as a problem. If it's an abrupt change to a different topic, I think I would find that annoying, but, again, I wouldn't classify it as a problem.
2) Do I think it's OK? Again, it all depends. I believe my response above pretty well defines my feelings towards O.T. drifting.
Conner1700: You only have 19 posts listed. Hank has 2,870. If this wasn't the BB for him, I believe he would have left a long time ago. IMO, Hank is a well respected member of this BB community with many years of posting and commenting.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2023-08-21 04:03
Dibbs,
Good one!
Hank
BTW If we discuss reeds then it's logical to next talk about ligatures, which brings us to mouthpieces, then....
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Author: Connor1700
Date: 2023-08-21 05:56
Dan Shusta: Mr. Lehrer's original post asked our opinion regarding hijacking a thread. I gave my opinion. My comments were not intended to, in any way, put Mr. Lehrer down or insinuate that he leave this forum. Your comments regarding the number of posts I have compared to Mr. Lehrer's seem to place more value and respect to veterans over newer members. IMHO, everyone should be welcome regardless of tenure, age, experience, or knowledge.
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2023-08-21 07:11
Hank,
It depends.
For me, there's a difference between a hijacked thread, and a thread which (through logical and perhaps even expected sequences) veers from the primary topic/question. Perhaps this distinction grows too blurry at times.
However, I've learned as much from the "veered off" topics as I have from the on-topic conversations (perhaps more).
To put it another way:
The direct answer helps the Original Poster (and maybe others). The non-direct answer seems to help others (and maybe the original poster).
Fuzzy
;^)>>>
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Author: Hunter_100
Date: 2023-08-21 17:44
Most people only read the title of the thread and the last one or two comments, so it is likely to deviate quickly from the original posting unless care is taken to steer the ship. It is just a suspicion of mine, but I think that the people who will radically alter the course of discussion may also be the ones who skip to the end and don't read the entire thread first before posting.
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Author: graham
Date: 2023-08-21 20:41
It’s like letting email contents drift away from the title. It’s not helpful.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-08-21 21:49
I wonder if it might be possible for Hank to give some concrete examples of what he means by hijacking?
I think there are different degrees of the problem, and maybe it would be helpful to define what he means?
There are two specific things that I notice on forums, where one seems okay and the other doesn't like this:
okay:
Mr A says: I have this problem and I would like advice. (e.g. flat throat tones)
Miss B says: I have that same problem, please can I join the discussion? (also flat throat tones)
If Miss B turns out to have a different problem, then someone can politely ask her to start a new thread.
Not okay:
Mr A says: I have this problem, and I would like advice (e.g. my clarinet that I've had for ten years has cracked through the bell.)
Miss B says: I would also like advice with this problem, please can I join the thread (Miss B has bought a clarinet online and it arrived cracked.)
Clearly in this case Miss B has quite a different problem and needs to have a new thread.
Again though, the answer is to politely ask Miss B to make a new thread.
Disclaimer: I spent 8 years at a bioinformatics institute employed as a mailing list moderator. I totally get that it's a hard job, and people will always have different views on how it should be done.
The big question in my mind here is: Is Hank volunteering to join the moderation team, because it sounds as though he has the time and enthusiasm for the role.
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Author: Hunter_100
Date: 2023-08-21 22:21
Hi SunnyDaze,
You may have inadvertently "hijacked" this thread (or at least started the process) with your last response. You posed a question about Hank getting volunteered for a moderator position. If anyone were to follow up on that topic, it would "hijack" the thread's original premise.
By the way, I think hijacking threads is ok as long as the discussion is somewhat related to the original question and the discussion follows some kind of logical progression (such as with your post, which I have no problem with, I'm merely using it as an example of how these things could easily stray off).
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Author: brycon
Date: 2023-08-21 22:30
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
If you think of the natural bends and turns of conversation as hijackings, I'm not so sure you're really open to other people's thoughts on the matter: your mind is made up.
But as Fuzzy says, there's a difference between logical digressions and complete non sequiturs. If you seek foolish consistency and either/ors, however, I'd much prefer digressions of all sorts than none at all. Because, as I see it, the digressions are really the main place for the sharing of knowledge here. Most the original posts are dreadfully dull and could have their answers filled by posters using the search feature or Google.
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2023-08-22 00:53
If a response talks about a context of the original topic, then it's close enough for me. If it draws comparisons via similarity to other topics, it's also ok with me. In this forum, quick sidebars are generally ok with me too.
Paul said the board "began as a place to archive information that can be referenced." I've used it for that many times, but it can be a fair chore to do so. If I think I want to refer back to information I find here, then I archive it or a link to it locally. Otherwise, there are many other sources of most information, so it's not so important to me if this forum strictly pigeonholes.
I come here for the variety of info it offers, but also just to read and write with other clarinetists, somewhat regardless of topic. It's not tightly moderated, and I guess I like it that way. Veering off course rarely irks me.
Having said all that, Hank, I will try to further edit down my own tendency to color outside lines. :-)
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2023-08-22 01:27
After rereading the above responses, my understanding is that due to the conversational manner of responding on this BB, very few are really upset by a slow drift hijack.
I believe I may have thought of a possible solution.
And that is...let the O.P. take on the role of "moderator" for their own thread. If he or she detects a slight, moderate, or severe shift in subject matter and is upset about it, perhaps a gentle reminder like: "Please stay on the original topic." could be inserted wherever and whenever it is deemed necessary by the O.P.
Anyway, it's just an idea...
Post Edited (2023-08-22 01:45)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-08-22 03:43
I think that rejoining one’s own thread does often become combative.
……….Paul Aviles
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2023-08-22 05:53
OK, Paul, How about the O.P. stating in the very beginning that they would prefer that the responses remain as close to the original topic as possible?
How do you think that that would be accepted?
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2023-08-24 19:54
Whenever I think a question I ask may invite unwanted diversions, I try to make the question as specific as possible. Then, if I don't get a direct answer but a lot of advice that isn't on target, I'm certainly free to ignore it. And if I never get a direct answer, I can just assume that no one else has one.
An actual hijack, to me, is a post that seems deliberately meant to take a thread in a whole different direction. Those should absolutely be used to start a new thread.
Karl
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-08-26 10:48
I don't think that in all fairness a single poster can be accused of " hijacking" a thread by posting something off topic . A thread becomes " hijacked" when others voluntary follow suit with that person. Often someone annoyed by this derailment of topic will pitch in to to put the topic back on track so I don't see a big issue here.
I think that the fairly free conversational tendencies on this forum make for interesting reading and while this freedom may cause some conflicts and annoyance at times it makes the forum a richer place .
Quote :
" I hate what you have written...but I would fight to the death for your right to continue writing it."
This is the spirit in which freedom of speech is truly defended and the quote derives from Voltaire a century before it was posthumously adopted and slightly altered by H D Thoreau .
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2023-08-27 01:37
Julian,
When you wrote: "I don't think that in all fairness a single poster can be accused of " hijacking" a thread by posting something off topic . A thread becomes "hijacked" when others voluntary follow suit with that person. Often someone annoyed by this derailment of topic will pitch in to to put the topic back on track so I don't see a big issue here."
IMO, a single off topic post very often becomes an "invitation" for others to follow suit with comments that perpetuate the first off topic post. I simply look upon that verbal behavior as "human nature".
As to your statement: "Often someone annoyed by this derailment of topic will pitch in to to put the topic back on track...", I only remember this once and it was done my a moderator who then abruptly "closed the thread". I have never seen this done simply by a member of the BB.
Lastly, when you stated: "...so I don't see a big issue here." Thread hijacking has, many times, become "a big issue" for me while doing research by reading past threads found through using the "search" function. More than a few times I have simply given up because it was so difficult to find precisely what I was looking for because of reading posts that "wandered' all over the place.
There was a recent thread about a Buffet B18. I had a question in my mind about the origin of the B18. However, instead of just adding it to the first B18 thread, I deemed my question to be a totally different topic so I started another thread.
So, to put it succinctly, to someone reading just the main page BB topics, hijacking a thread may truly be "no big deal". However, to anyone doing research of old threads, reading "off topic" posts can be a real headache as well as a waste of precious time.
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-08-27 21:54
Hi Dan,
Well....you've asked for people's opinions on this topic and you've got them .
That's all the BBoard has to offer like it or not.
Since when is " human nature" succumbing to temptation without accountability?
....That's a new one for me !
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-08-27 23:03
Hi,
If the important thing is to stick to the topic in the subject line, then maybe we also need to super-careful about choosing our subject line to reflect what we actually want to talk about?
I've been in the habit of thinking that the opening post is the important thing, but this thread makes me think that maybe we need to be really specific with the title too.
Jen
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2023-08-27 23:28
Hi Jen,
Yes, quoting kdk from an above post: "I try to make the question as specific as possible."
I would also like to suggest that the opening query be as specific and narrowly defined as possible.
Hi Julian,
Many, many years ago, I learned of the detrimental consequences that can come forth from responding in kind to a post which (IMO) appeared to be combative or offensive in nature.
I hope you both have a happy and peaceful day.
Post Edited (2023-08-28 00:18)
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-08-28 00:51
Hi Dan,
No worries mate !
Perhaps you should share your feelings on thread hijacking with the forum administration if you think stronger policing of this matter is in order.
I don't think however ,that policing threads going off topic is something that the moderators want to be troubled with , which means that this is a matter we would have to police ourselves. Like I said ,off topic posts can be,and often are ignored .If other posters instead chose to follow on with the off topic digression , it's because we're not self policing because we don't care to be. Threads drifting off topic seems to be quite characteristic on this forum, but so too is a lot of lively discussin which is likely the key to the forum's great popularity.
" We have to be careful that in throwing out the devil, we don't throw out the best part of ourselves" (Nietzsche)
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2023-08-28 03:05
Hello Everyone,
I'm the person who selected the title (I wanted it short and attention-getting). I next gave an example of non-hijacking a thread and included praise for not doing so.
Then I asked the question about a problem I have experienced on this BB for a very long time followed by "is it OK?".
I believe I've covered all the bases.
Regards,
Hank (who this fall begins his 73rd year of playing the clarinet)
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2023-09-01 20:23
Hello Everyone,
I knew that the topic of thread hi-jacking had been on my mind for a little while but was not aware that it went back over two decades. I started a thread about adding a BIS key to a clarinet way back in 2002.
Here is a link if you are interested. http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=83577&t=83577 Look about 6 up from the bottom.
For some crazy reason, a couple of posters got into a discussion of Latin phrases.
Mark was prompt with his response. So, my friends, the practice has been around for some time.
Hank
Post Edited (2023-09-01 21:15)
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2023-09-01 21:54
As moderators we get involved when a thread wanders toward the offensive, but generally we stay away - I find threads that go somewhat off topic much more interesting than 95% of the threads that are repeats of something I've already seen in the last 25 or 30 years. I used to say "try searching". That doesn't work "there are so many responses - I don't want to read that many". Now I just let them go and only read in passing. We have literally thousands of threads on (beginner, intermediate, professional) mouthpieces, ligatures, barrels, Selmer, Buffet, Leblanc, etc., models that were new when the BBoard was young and are now classic or have fallen by the wayside. Reeds - I think all the brands have been covered, extant and non-extant (lots of coverage of the old Morre' reeds that were unavailable when this BBoard started already).
We _could_ go to 100% moderation - but no one pays me for this and all you'd get is MY ideas on what we should yack about. That would be a baaaaad idea, as evidenced by a few other lists around. I have my biases ...
Do we take people off the list for being a**hats? Once in a while. Doesn't take even two hands to count the times we've done that. Other than the spammers, of course. 5-10 of those a week. Why do we get spammers? Because they think you're a nice and generous audience.
Have I hijacked the thread? Yes.
Post Edited (2023-09-01 22:26)
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