 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2023-06-17 05:44
Answers can only be as good as the questions I ask. Mea culpa.
Let's try this again.
Why did mouthpieces switch at some point to have the reed on bottom from its original place on top of the mouthpiece?
And why when it happened did most clarinetists switch to single lip embouchure or if taking up the instrument for the first time after this switch, not back then continue with double lip embouchure?
Was the reed on bottom switch done SO single lip embouchure could be adopted?
TIA
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-06-17 11:34
I believe that the first clarinet resembled a recorder, but with reed, and a couple of crude keys added.
The reed was switched from front to back by Heinrich Barmann at the start of the 19 the century as he realized that this offered better control .
This age is often referred to as " The beginning of the age of innovation." so the clarinet as we know it is very much a child of the industrial revolution.
Shortly afterwards, Adof Sax sophisticated keywork mechanics, which is probably
largely behind the heightened keywork complexity we see on the bass clarinet of today .
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-06-17 14:00
Oops!..... I meant to say early 18th century!
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: donald
Date: 2023-06-17 14:15
I'm sorry Julian but your grossly simplified version of events is also largely inaccurate. What are your sources for this info, are you just repeating something some teacher told you or Wikipaedia? There is evidence of players having the reed on the lower lip in the 18thC, certainly pre-dating HB, and while it's true AS certainly worked on Bass clarinet keywork, his major contributions were in the acoustic layout- the "keywork inovations" predated him by 20 or 30 years (though he certainly took full advantage of early innovation to help him achieve his improvements).
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-06-17 15:22
Hi Donald ,
I figured that my somewhat flakey, simplified version would get picked to pieces.
I notice that you haven't actually gone on to respond to the topic question however, which you can no doubt do much better than me .
As I understand it , Barmann was a prominent advocate in his times of the reed below, and was accredited with some changes to the instrument combined with his musical talents which were likely behind the standardization of the reed below . We are still talking about the early 18th century when these changes took place as a progressively adopted practice ,by Barmann and others you may care to name .
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Hunter_100
Date: 2023-06-17 16:12
You coud try playing with the reed up for a few days and let us know how it goes. Maybe you will discover the reason yourself? I have tried playing with the reed up and it feels weird. I did not try it for long enough to get really used to it though, it was just an experiment after watching one of Fedele's youtube videos about biting.
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2023-06-17 16:13
I miss longtime board contributor seabreeze, who always provided detailed and fascinating information about the evolution of equipment and playing styles, and also about who's playing what today. He abruptly stopped posting and commenting last summer, and I hope he's ok.
This topic was one that interested him, and here are some relevant links he sent me.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/313119107_The_Reed-above_embouchure_Fact_or_Fallacy
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/313119192_18th-_and_19th-century_Iconographical_Representations_of_Clarinet_Reed_Position
One point the above researcher made is that some early clarinet music might be performed with reed above if historical performance accuracy is wanted.
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Author: donald
Date: 2023-06-17 17:23
On my screen it looks like you are writing "early 18th century", but I think you mean "early 19th century" (Baermann was born in the LATE 18th century, and the clarinet only had 2 or 3 keys in the early 18th century, most would say it didn't really exist until the mid 18thC)
Tausch taught H Baermann, and he (Tausch) advocated "reed below". Backofen was pretty much "both ways are fine" (in 1803 he instructed you to hold the Basset Horn differently if you played reed below, but passed no judgement on which was better) and Muller wrote likewise in his Method (1821, at which time he had already had a long career).
Try reading books by Al Rice (plus his thesis), Eric Hoeprich and Colin Lawson as this will be easier than translating the historic sources.
Post Edited (2023-06-17 17:47)
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-06-17 19:28
Hi Donald ,
Thank you for the related literature references and pointing out my hundreds/century oversight .
Cheers . J
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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