 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2023-05-01 19:06
Are there people out there using legato tonguing that involves contacting the roof of the mouth rather than the reed?
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-05-01 22:57
Funny you should mention this. It is for me an integral part of double tonguing to execute both the “ta” and the “ka” on the roof of the mouth for upper clarion and altissimo notes. The combination of tongue on reed mixed with back of tongue on the roof of the mouth creates too much disparity in the air pressure for the roof of the mouth notes to work.
I have a slow tongue and by necessity need to double tongue on many standards such as the last mvt of Beethoven’s Fourth, or Midsummer’s Night Dream.
…………Paul Aviles
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2023-05-02 00:26
I’m thinking the same way Paul. Of course the “k” can’t be on the reed.
Freelance woodwind performer
Post Edited (2023-05-02 00:30)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2023-05-02 00:38
Paul Aviles wrote:
> Funny you should mention this. It is for me an integral part
> of double tonguing to execute both the “ta” and the
> “ka” on the roof of the mouth for upper clarion and
> altissimo notes. The combination of tongue on reed mixed with
> back of tongue on the roof of the mouth creates too much
> disparity in the air pressure for the roof of the mouth notes
> to work.
Paul, do you have to change how much mouthpiece is in your mouth to do this?
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-05-02 01:39
Karl,
Not at all. I just draw the the tongue back. It is a technique that only provides a very subtle articulated sound, but when in any sort of rapidly articulated passage that is really what one needs. Anything too defined at high speed can come of sounding like machine gun fire so one always has to "lighten up" anyway.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2023-05-02 19:32
Beyond using this for double tonguing I think that touching the roof of the mouth with the tongue can provide a less pointed single articulation. This would be useful in many lyrical passages. It might also be useful for quick single tonguing. It would not be good for all situations.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: Hunter_100
Date: 2023-05-02 22:45
I tongued this way for 20+ years. It works very well for legato and it can be very fast. In the past 2 years, I have had to stop doing it because I started playing eb, and tonging on the roof of my mouth does not work well for altissimo notes on my eb. It causes too much interruption to the air stream and wrecks the highest notes. I never had a problem on my Bb though. I have a short and fat tongue, I think this technique lends itself to that shape of tongue.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-05-03 20:05
Hunter 100,
Hey I just hoped you could clarify your results since they sound like the OPPOSITE of mine and that in itself would be interesting.
So are you saying that you "double tonged" completely upon the roof of your mouth, but that did NOT work on the Eb because of the interruption, OR, are you saying that alternating between tip of reed and roof of mouth did not work?
In my application (for double tonguing only) it really is more of a perturbation of the air than a hard stop between notes. But as I stated earlier, the faster you go, the less distinct the articulation should be unless you're going for some special effect.
.....................Paul Aviles
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Author: Hunter_100
Date: 2023-05-03 23:42
I did the roof of mouth technique for single tonguing only, not double tongue. To be honest, I never needed to learn double tongue since I could do it fast enough (although I'm learned it now that I'm doing the "normal" on the reed tonguing).
As I'm sure you are aware, the alitissimo tuning on the eb is really affected by tongue position (high, low etc). I found that my old habit of tonging on the roof of my mouth cause pitch problems on my eb clarinet when doing staccato. Sometimes, the pitch would drop so much when I tried tonguing that a lower note would come out.
But on my Bb apparently my tongue was not moving enough to be a problem. I guess it does not need as high of a tongue position for altissimo.
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2023-05-15 18:24
There are many types of articulation available. I have been exploring the legato quality of tonguing to the roof of the mouth. Many beginners use this and then graduate to tonguing on the reed. On the reed is generally more distinct and can be crisp . Perfect for many applications. Achieving very legato with speed was difficult for me and thus I am exploring another route. It is just one choice we have. I don’t intend it to be all purpose.
Freelance woodwind performer
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