 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: pukalo
Date: 2023-04-14 10:12
Hi
I am looking for a mouthpiece that has similar dimensions as my vandoren B45 but with less resistance. Specifically the selmer paris concept and the vandoren B45 "dot" look interesting. Does anyone have experience with these three mouthpieces, and if so, are the concept and "dot" less resistant in any significant way? This is my first post so I am not very familiar with navigating this website.
current setup is B45 with 3.5 rue lepic
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Author: ACCA
Date: 2023-04-15 11:05
you are playing on a very resistant setup!
both in terms of embouchure and air.
the Selmer concept is a closer tip than the B45 and requires less work from the embouchure, and also is more free blowing.
if you want a wider tip you might try the Selmer c85-120 or -115 which are discontinued but widely available at stores and that auction site still. Decent pieces with very little resistance. good luck.
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Author: pukalo
Date: 2023-04-15 20:32
I'll probably try the concept then. I tried an M13 and M15, but they were *too* free-blowing and the tip was too narrow, and it caused me to squeak a lot.
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Author: Bob Barnhart ★2017
Date: 2023-04-15 22:08
First, I would suggest that most Vandoren mouthpieces are probably moderately resistant by design. The more open facings (B45, B40, etc) are generally more resistant (for the same type/strength reed) than the closer facings (M13, M15, 5RV, etc.). I would agree that a Vandoren 3.5 RLP is probably too stiff a reed for the B45.
Second, it is important to realize that the facing (i.e., curve dimensions) is only one factor in the resistance of a mouthpiece. The width of the rails, depth/curve of the baffle, throat design and bore dimensions are other important factors that may make two mouthpieces with the "same" facing play very differently in terms of resistance, tone quality and response.
For example, for me, the Selmer Echo (1.08xL) and the Fobes 3L (1.08xML) mouthpieces are similar on paper, but the Echo is very resistant whereas the Fobes is much less so. I have a Backun MoBa P+ (1.17xML) that is very resistant mostly because it has very wide rails, but I have a Backun MoBa Arabesque (1.19xL) that is much LESS resistant even though it is more open!
I think it is important to have a firm idea of the kind of feel, tone, response and overall performance that you are looking for because these can often be achieved with a variety of mouthpieces having different facings and internal designs as long as they are matched with the appropriate reed.
Over my career I've played a wide range of mouthpieces with different dimensions/designs/reeds (HS**, HS*, B45, M13Lyre, M30, B40, Smith, Backun, BD4/5/7, Selmer, Fobes 10K/Europa) and been able to achieve the goals I was looking for. In the past, I've relied on the resistance of more open mouthpieces to get the sound I was looking for, but over the years have worked to focus and voice the airstream to achieve the same result with a less-resistant setup.
I'm now 72 and at this point, I want to achieve my desired results with less work. This has forced me to move away from more open mouthpieces to more closed ones. Also, I also know that mouthpieces from some makers (e.g., Smith, Fobes) are generally more free blowing that those from other sources.
Based on my personal experience, if you can afford it, I would talk with Clark Fobes or Greg Smith. Even if you don't go with one of their mouthpieces, you'll gain a wealth of knowledge from them. If you want to stick with Vandoren, I would consider trying an M30 (Lyre) or one of the BD4/5/7 mouthpieces, all of which have comfortable resistance with the right reed.
Finally, working with a good teacher will be invaluable in making the right decisions.
Good luck in your quest!
Bob Barnhart
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Author: pukalo
Date: 2023-04-15 23:44
I'm looking for the same playing characteristics as a B45, just with less resistance, which is why the B45 "dot" was my first go-to. I tend to stray towards Vandoren just because their system is the one I am most familiar with, but I am open to all mouthpiece brands as long as they aren't super expensive (like 250$ CAD is probably the most I'm willing to spend for a B-flat mouthpiece).
A 3.5 rue lepic curiously plays fine on a B45 for me (3.5+ is too hard), but a strength 3 blue box is too hard on the same mouthpiece (fuzzy, airy sound). If I use blue box on a B45 the 2.5 strength is what works. Might be due to how the reeds are cut differently that the strengths don't line up.
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Author: Hunter_100
Date: 2023-04-16 00:04
My B45 plays well with 3 or 3.5 reeds depending on the weather but mine seems to be very sensitive to reed balancing. Usually when I have reeds that play resistant, I have to take a bit off one side or the other and the resistance drops dramatically.
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Author: gwie
Date: 2023-04-16 05:02
>I tried an M13 and M15, but they were *too* free-blowing
You need to move up to a stiffer reed with these mouthpieces. The M13 and M15, with their close tip openings, have less resistance and therefore do well with 4.0 and harder strengths.
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Author: Bob Barnhart ★2017
Date: 2023-04-16 05:31
Your issues peeked my curiosity and I got out my B45 which I inherited from my teacher back in the late '60s. I put on a new V12 #3 and was surprised/pleased to get a very fine tone with excellent intonation and response, particularly rapid articulation and very acceptable resistance. For comparison, I put the same reed on the B40-13 I played for many years (at the time with a VD Traditional #3) and found that the tone, although somewhat darker, was not as well defined, the response was more sluggish and it exhibited greater resistance. Since the primary difference between the B45 and B40 is the rail thickness, the sluggish response and greater resistance are probably due to this design feature.
Although I had no RLP 56 reeds for comparison, most charts suggest that the V12 #3 is softer than both the RLP #3 and #3.5, while the V12 #3.5 is harder than the RLP #3.5. In addition, the Traditional #3 is supposedly slightly softer than the RLP #3.5.
Based on this simple experiment, if it were me, I would try some V12 #3s with your B45 and perhaps even some Traditional #3s. Perhaps you would be pleased with a resulting reduction in resistance while preserving other characteristics.
Since I find most contemporary Vandoren reeds to be less pliant/flexible than some other brands, I should mention that, for this reason, years ago I tried Rico Reserves (not the Classic cut), Steuer, Behn Aria and finally settled on Pilgerstorfer (which I now play). I would suggest trying some Rico Reserve #3s or (preferably) Pilgerstorfer 3.5s or 4s. Also, Behn Aria and Brio reeds, like the Pilgerstorfers, are more vibrant/pliant/flexible, and run about 1/2 strength softer than other reed (ie. a 4 would be about a 3 1/2 in other brands). I should also note that I put some of my current Pilgerstorfer #4s on the B45 and it played great with less resistance than my old B40 did (as pairs with a Traditional #3).
I hope this helps.
Bob Barnhart
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Author: donald
Date: 2023-04-16 15:04
Normally I stay out of this kind of thread... but... if you want something "like" the B45 but with less resistance I'd try the M30.
It has less "blowing resistance" than B45, but also you'll find the facing requires less jaw pressure.
There's a lot to write about facings etc but I'll keep my advice simple.
Also- Bob Barnhart mentions the Behn Aria/Brio reeds. I am quite a fan of the Brio reeds, and yes they do seem to run 1/2 a strength softer (I found the 4s I was given to be equivalent to a V12 3.5)
dn
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Author: Jimis4klar
Date: 2023-04-16 18:13
I recommend you try your B45 with V12 3.5 I think will work better. That with some metal ligature. B45 is a good mouthpiece in my opinion, you shouldn't change mouthpiece.
I even prefer Its form over the B40, B45 has more focus.
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Author: sonicbang
Date: 2023-04-16 18:33
Hi pukalo,
B45 dot is similar in almost every aspect but it has a lightly bigger chamber than the regular B45. This detail might give slightly less resistance, but I would day the difference between a two regular B45s can be as big as between a normal B45 and a B45 dot.
if you are looking forward to a mouthpiece like a B45 but with less resistance, the easiest way to get there is to reduce the resistance of you B45. There are several ways to achieve this, depending on your needs (correcting possible asymmetrical spots, close the facing a bit, tinning the rails, adjust the steepness of the resistance curve, slightly opening the throat, etc).
Best would be an in-person session with a mouthpiece technician, but if you don't have the chance to arrange this, you can do that via mailing. I also reface/customize mouthpieces, and there are several skilled refacers/mouthpiece artists/technicians on this BBoard, eg. Donald, who has also replied to this thread.
For more info about the available refacers, you can check this link:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=461271&t=461271
Hope this helps.
Mark
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Author: ACCA
Date: 2023-04-17 18:58
do you want "less resistance" in terms of embouchure, (ie achieved by closer/longer facing) or of air (achieved by chamber, window, & baffle)?
They are distinct but impact each other and of course your sound.
For me, I need a fairly free-blowing setup in terms of air, or after some time my palate tires and the air comes out my nose! but if it's too free blowing you tend to bite to compensate.
see Tom Ridenour's very good tips on the issue here: https://www.rclarinetproducts.com/how-to-select-a-new-clarinet
good luck!
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Author: donald
Date: 2023-04-18 01:40
The B45 mouthpiece is designed so that learners who have been playing on size 2 and 2.5 reeds will put their old reed on the mouthpiece (when trying out a new one in the shop) and get a better sound.
In other words- the resistance built in to the facing is there to sell mouthpieces. In the shop you sound better, after playing it for a while you'll develop bad habits, either throw the B45 in the bin or get someone to reface it.
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