 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Rainwaltz
Date: 2023-03-20 22:38
I lately have difficulty covering tone holes, esp lower joint. I do better with a Yamaha csvr than sevr, and I notice the tone holes on the sevr are wider. However I do prefer the acoustic qualities of the sevr. Are there other clarinets with smaller lower joint tone holes that might approximate tonal aspects of the sevr.
Possibly other larger bore clarinets - ?Buffet RC, Uebel, Backun….?
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Author: m1964
Date: 2023-03-21 02:45
Rainwaltz wrote:
> I lately have difficulty covering tone holes, esp lower joint.
> I do better with a Yamaha csvr than sevr, and I notice the tone
> holes on the sevr are wider. However I do prefer the acoustic
> qualities of the sevr. Are there other clarinets with smaller
> lower joint tone holes that might approximate tonal aspects of
> the sevr.
> Possibly other larger bore clarinets - ?Buffet RC, Uebel,
> Backun….?
My understanding is that the larger the bore, the larger the tone holes.
Your problem can be not covering completely just one tone hole, and not necessarily because of its size but finger/hand positioning.
I'd try to pinpoint the exact tone hole/finger producing the problem.
If all three are problematic, you might want to look into relocating the thumb rest or installing an aftermarket, more supportive, thumb rest.
Would be nice if you have someone else to watch your fingers while playing- your teacher or a friend who also plays clarinet.
Also, there are plateau clarinets that would eliminate such problem alltogether.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-03-21 16:34
Attachment: ycl250.jpg (282k)
You can always have the RH pinky touchpieces moved in closer if you're finding you have to stretch to reach the F/C and E/B touches and end up with a leak from the RH3 tonehole chimney.
See attachment for an idea what that's like (left - before, right - after).
I've done this on some Yamaha clarinets as well as moved the thumbrest for older players with less flexibility in their fingers so they can reach the RH pinky keys easier without any other fingers lifting off the tonehole chimneys.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2023-03-21 16:39)
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Author: Rainwaltz
Date: 2023-03-23 17:32
Thanks to both respondents for their helpful, detailed comments and suggestions. Indeed I have for years used adjustable thumbrests replaced upward to allow apposition of the right thumb and forefinger in the position of function. Most recently I had a Kooiman Maestro thumbrest installed on the SEVR.
My hands are normal size and I am able to reach the pinky keys. It's beginning to occur to me that the problem with covering the third tonehole on the lower joint may not be arthritis, but could represent decreased proprioception (?aging, ?diabetes). If the tonehone is narrow it allows some error.
That could be why I am having the difficulty with the SEVR but not the CSVR which has visibly smaller toneholes. However, I otherwise prefer the playing characteristics of the SEVR to the CSVR (and R13s i have had previously), which is why I asked whether there are other clarinets with similar playing characteristics to the SEVR but without the big toneholes.
If the differences are due to the larger bore size of the SEVR, then I probably should stick with the CSVR - which is also a very good instrument. I did try out the Uebel Superior plateau clarinet; impressively well made (and expensive) clarinet but not my cup of tea sound-wise - although I suppose I could get used to it.
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Author: Johnny Galaga
Date: 2023-03-24 03:59
I've always felt like the right-hand A♭/E♭ key on my R13 is a little too short and I miss it sometimes.
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Author: m1964
Date: 2023-03-24 09:38
Rainwaltz wrote:
"... Indeed I have for years used adjustable thumbrests replaced upward to allow apposition of the right thumb and forefinger in the position of function. Most recently I had a Kooiman Maestro thumbrest installed on the SEVR.
My hands are normal size and I am able to reach the pinky keys. It's beginning to occur to me that the problem with covering the third tonehole on the lower joint may not be arthritis, but could represent decreased proprioception (?aging, ?diabetes). If the tonehone is narrow it allows some error.
...
If the differences are due to the larger bore size of the SEVR, then I probably should stick with the CSVR - which is also a very good instrument. I did try out the Uebel Superior plateau clarinet; impressively well made (and expensive) clarinet but not my cup of tea sound-wise - although I suppose I could get used to it."
It looks like you have done your homework about adjusting the clarinet to your needs;
maybe you could have that 3rd ring bent down slightly so your ring finger would be directly over the chimney without pressing on the ring at all.
The plateau clarinet would help a lot if the problem is with proprioception and/or sensation.
The Uebels do sound differently, but their top of the line Zenit sounded very nice, very much comparable to anything from Buffet or Yamaha (IMO).
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-03-24 12:43
The RH3 tonehole has to be much larger in diameter compared to RH2 because the notes A/E are effectively forked notes when Bb/F is fully vented - the RH3 tonehole having a tonehole (Ab/Eb) closed immediately below it when playing A/E (xxx|xxo) which needs to be brought up to pitch as a result.
If the Ab/Eb tonehole was always held open whilst playing (like on flute), then the RH3 tonehole could be made much smaller in diameter to bring A/E down to pitch. Same with the LH3 tonehole (for D/A) as that is larger in diameter that it ought to be simply because there's a closed tonehole immediately below it (C#/G#) when playing D/A (xxo|ooo).
There are some high end German Boehm system clarinets made with an automatic A/E vent which is a side key which opens and closes along with RH3 to fully vent the A/E as well as allowing the RH3 tonehole to be made smaller in diameter. The A/E vent tonehole is in a similar location to the existing Ab/Eb tonehole, although usually smaller in diameter and located a little higher up the joint as a result, similar to an oboe forked F vent.
An easy comparison on a clarinet itself is the difference in diameter between the side F# tonehole and the thumb tube - the thumb tube being considerably larger in diameter to compensate for LH1 being held down, whereas the side F# tonehole is a lot smaller as that fingering doesn't have any fingers held down (except the left thumb) to diminish its venting.
On B&H 1010s and other clarinets fitted with an Acton vent, the RH1 tonehole is smaller than that on a clarinet that's not fitted with the Acton vent as the regular fingering for B/F# is fully vented with the Acton vent which compensates for RH2 being held closed.
These are the compromises that are made to make an instrument that's not fully vented play as best in tune. Compare clarinet toneholes with flute toneholes and you'll see the difference between a non-fully vented instrument and a fully vented instrument as flutes have all the toneholes open (the G# tonehole being doubled with the double LH3 toneholes and the Eb key is held open whilst playing most notes).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: donald
Date: 2023-03-26 03:10
There was a Korean company making clarinets with the right hand tone holes smaller- especially for young students. Can't remember the name and haven't seen them for about 10 years.
One student of mine, 11 years old and quite small, plays a Yamaha CX wooden clarinet that is way to big and heavy for his hands. His dad, a former clarinet player, has put black tape over the bottom 1/4 of the lowest open hole to make is easier for RH3 to cover the hole.
At first I was quite skeptical (esp as this would compromise the tone/tuning of low A) but actually it worked fine, and the student made good progress over a year, until he no longer needed the tape there. It worked and I was wrong!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-03-26 12:15
I've seen a Bundy clarinet back in the '90s where someone soft soldered a perforated brass plate to the RH3 ring, then glued a perforated cork disc to the underside to seal it against the top of the RH3 tonehole chimney which raised the top of the RH3 ring key by around 2mm as well as made it much easier to cover. The perforation in the plate being the same diameter as the RH3 tonehole.
That must've been some undertaking to be sure the ring key sat level with the top of the tonehole chimney (given Bundy's fit and finish) so the cork shim sealed it as that's not going to be an easy thing to adjust, what with the cork shim being glued in place with contact adhesive.
As for reversing it, that was a simple case of unsoldering the plate, wiping as much solder off and polishing the ring key to remove any residual soft solder as it would've been around 30% lead solder given the time it was done which was most likely in the '80s.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Hurstfarm
Date: 2023-03-26 12:33
A good plateau key clarinet would solve the problem. I was struggling with numb fingers after a course of chemotherapy, and was lucky enough to get hold of a covered hole Uebel Superior - a beautifully made instrument, and set up properly it’s a match for the regular version, with no stuffy notes.
Hanson are now offering plateau keys as an option on beginner, intermediate and professional instruments. It’ll always be a niche market, but they can be a game changer for someone struggling with small hands, arthritis, neuropathy, a hand injury or similar.
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