 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: echelonphoto
Date: 2023-03-01 21:01
Hi All,
I have browsed topics on hearing aids for clarinetists...they are all kind of old and I felt we should reopen this discusion. I am over 70...suffer moderate hearing loss and am a proficient clarinetist. I wear a hearing device for general daily activities hearing speech and tv, etc. I have not been able to wear one when playing because the sound is so gross. However , there have been subtle indications that what I am hearing while playing without may not be what is actually coming out of the instrument...I hear the wind symphony quite well so far, but my actual sound my be brighter than what my ears are picking up. I got a pair of older Widex Dream 440's that were programmed to my chart and they show some promise. I can actually play with a device in one ear...however...it does seem exceptionally bright and harsh compare to playing without. I believe it is picking up a lot of the actual reed and oral cavity sound. Its a reall dilemma. I wonder if anyone has any new successes with these problems. I was also thinking of recording myself practicing to get a better idea of what my actual sound is. Is there a reasonably priced digital recorder I could purchase.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-03-02 18:14
The Zoom H2N is a great recording device for around $160.
Ya know, you got me thinking about both hearing devices such as ear plugs and hearing aides. The problem with BOTH of these devices for a wind player is bone induction. You hear the buzzy internal sound that resonates through your jaw.
A solution to that for private practice would be to go the route of "studio monitoring." This is not cheap just to get started but for the hearing impaired would allow you to "boost" your signal without the plugging your ears. My suggestion would be to use open back headphones (the least "plug like" headphone design) with a pre-amp/interface and one or two (for stereo effect) descent mics finally running with recording program like Garage Band or ProTools (you can add reverb and delay to make up for a really dry room). The interface and headphones would be about $300 apiece and the mic(s) would be around another $300 for a pair of descent mics. Finally have a sound recording program of widely varying price points.
Maybe you could find a recording engineer in your area to set you up with a cheap session just to see if a set up like that would work for you.
Just a thought.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-03-02 23:31
No........private practice at home......and it is expensive.
But it is potentially much more satisfying than a hearing aide.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: echelonphoto
Date: 2023-03-02 23:38
Thanks.....I will keep pursuing this problem....I need to know what my actual sound is in a performing situation with a group. I can hear the the music fine without aids and my sound is pleasing to me, but my wife says it may be a little strident, when I am hearing dark.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-03-03 03:37
That could be a number of things, but if your wife's assessment as changed markedly over the years it could very well be your loss of sensitivity to upper frequencies.
When we are at prime hearing we should be able to make out frequencies up to 20k cycles per second (really really high). Women always tend to be more sensitive to higher frequencies anyway but I believe men lose more over the years.
Here's something:
https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/
Be careful with volume!!! It starts a pure sign wave at 440 (orchestral "A" tuning note). Hit play at a lower volume to start just to be sure you don't further hurt your hearing. When I turned it on using my laptop at half volume my wife in the kitchen said, "What's that?!!?"
Once you have a tone going (press play), slide the marker in the bar farther and farther to the right until you reach a point at which you don't hear anything any more. I lose it at about 12k which is already notable hearing loss.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: echelonphoto
Date: 2023-03-03 22:10
Thanks for this info Paul.....I did the generator test. Here are the results:
No hearing aid 7950
Aid in r ear 8612
Aid in l ear 8254
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Looks pretty bad. I must be missing hearing some of my tonal qualities.
Andy
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-03-04 06:11
Hi Paul,
That's a really helpful website.
I have the opposite problem to echelonphoto because I'm an ASD person with sensory sensitivity. That means that I can easily get ill from exposure to sounds and other sensory stimuli.
I also have quite light (possibly high pitched) voice, so when men around me start to lose the upper register of their hearing, I am often the first to know about it, because I effectively get deleted from their conversation.
I just did the test on that website on myself and I can still hear it clearly at 13,612Hz but it disappears for me just a little above that.
At the moment I'm unable to play the clarinet or do much else, because I just had some building work done our house, and the sound of the masonry drills messed my constitution right up. Conversely, my two neighbours who both have hearing loss, didn't notice the noise at all. So it turns out that there are definite advantages to having a bit of hearing loss.
echelonphoto - if it's the upper register that you are losing, might it work to switch to bass clarinet? Maybe you would be able to hear that just fine? All the men around me with hearing loss can hear men's voices fine, and it's just me that seems to vanish when they hit about age 68.
Jennifer
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-03-04 07:07
I was listening to a comedian that told a story of visiting his doctor upon noticing some hearing loss. He was told there is a particular condition that causes some men to have perfectly good hearing throughout the normal range of hearing with the exception of the frequencies where the sounds of women and children reside. His reply to the news was, 'So what's the problem?' The doctor said, seriously, I can fit you with a hearing aide tuned just to those frequencies and you'll be as good as new. To which he replied, 'Doc, just do me a favor and tell my wife there is nothing you can do, it is an irreversible condition.'
I used to sell electronics back in the 80's and we had an entire wall of televisions that were (of course at the time) cathode ray tube types. Typically, men would stand in front of all the sets and ogle at all the images. Many women would (if they even dared to walk into the store) say, WHAT IS THAT NOISE? Apparently cathode ray tubes emit carrier waves. I forgot the frequency but it is quite high. Most men can't hear it. Most women can. Some hearing "problems" can indeed be a blessing.
Sorry to hear about the masonry drills. That sounds a lot like a dentist's drill on steroids!
............Paul Aviles
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-03-04 07:22
Hi Paul,
I think your story about women's and children's voices hits the nail on the head. One of my relatives has kindly just got a hearing aid so we can chat, and he says the intrusion of all of the little sounds of life is incredibly annoying. It's things like the clock ticking, and the sound of him drinking his tea, which he never heard before. I think there are many sounds that we could do without quite happily if we had the option.
I remember those 80s tv displays too. Pre-covid, my family used to practically place bets on how fast I could get through the audio-visual section of the department store, to the safe area on the other side. Masonry drills, as you say, are a whole other thing.
I imagine that a degree of hearing loss must be a real boon in an orchestra. The closest I can get to our local symphony orchestra is "row N". I would definitely not be in competition with echelonphoto if he was auditioning.
My relative, that I was talking about above, has a hearing aid that boosts the upper register more, and the lower register a bit less. He had lost all of his upper register and 40% of the lower. I wonder if that would be enough to take the edge off the problem that echelonphoto describes? That's just a standard NHS (free) hearing aid. My relative can definitely hear me now, though for complicated things, I still have to email.
Jen
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-03-04 10:10
There is no "good" solution though for allowing better hearing in a rehearsal or performance. Take the most perfunctory foam earplugs, stick them in your ears and start to play. Not good at all is it? In the Army we had occupational safety folks come around and actually order "musician's" earplugs custom made for the whole band. I was really looking forward to this! They are made so that a full range of frequencies come through but attenuated to a safe level. The same problem manifested itself with the bone induction. You can't get around that whenever you do ANY occlusion of the oral canal. So I think I knew the prolonged exposure to higher volumes over the years would result in more hearing loss than the typical individual. It was a sacrifice I made to keep my sanity in rehearsal.
..............Paul Aviles
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