 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2023-03-01 11:30
A recent thread got me to thinking...
About all machinery and man hours used to mine the ore to make our lowly pivot screw.
About the fuel used in those mines.
About the insurance paid by those mining companies. About the training and safety of those miners.
Of the negotiations of union demands.
The cost of mining equipment, and the repair of that equipment.
The cost of fines from the government for being out of spec, and the cost of implementing newer technologies and systems in an attempt to meet the ever changing demands placed on them by regulators.
The cost of research to find sustainable solutions.
The cost of oversight.
The cost of training.
The cost of law suits.
The cost of sorting, crushing - and the equipment to do so.
The increased cost of fuel and regulation as everyone is forced away from fossil fuels.
That's just the raw material for the pivot screw. Not the smelting, the purifying, the forming, the machining. Not the fuel to ship, nor the waste lost on the floor/ground.
Taxes. Tariffs.
This only touches the tip of the matter and leaves out most of the costs and processes of that little screw in the end of my clarinet's post.
Multiply that over and over and over yet again for all the other harvesting, milling, hauling, refining, shaping, fixing, sharpening, honing, etc. Cutting, drilling. Lubricating.
Every part of that clarinet goes through some similar or related process. The wood, the rubber, the pads, the glue, etc.
Really, it makes me wonder how clarinets are so cheap. It's is just one tiny example of the miracle of the modern age we live in.
Fuzzy
;^)>>>
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-03-01 12:53
Hi Fuzzy,
That's a really good point.
I always feel really lucky to be born in a generation when I can buy good reeds in a shop, rather than have to grow them myself.
Jennifer
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-03-01 13:38
Attachment: clarinet.png (13k)
I just looked back at the article in the International Clarinet Association Magazine about the history of E.J Albert clarinet, like the one I have. (Magazine edition - June 2021)
In the article there is a reproduced copy of the printed advert for Albert clarinets that would have appeared in the magazines of the time.
The only detail about the price of the clarinet says "Price list subject to alteration without engagement, March, 1929."
That's very different from our world where we can do a Google shopping search and see all the different clarinets and their prices, and just buy one online.
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-03-01 14:01
Yes !... I think that in today's word we are used to prices lowered by a lot of mechanical manufacturing . Machinery is used in making clarinets too , but a great deal of hand craftsmanship is still involved and this has become something that , given what we now consider it acceptable to pay for things , we turn largely to Asia, where all that laborious handcraft work was done by somebody earning a dollar an hour. ( should we be criticizing the quality...or giving them a medal ?)
The few remaining things handcrafted in the west are now relatively expensive compared to most other things that are mechanically produced , or else crafted in Asia . The real question is " Is a hand crafted clarinet made in the West now more ...or less expensive than it used to be as a percentage of the average yearly income ?". Professional musicians tend not to be particularly well off financially, and more often than not have difficulty in affording the instruments that rightfully belong in their hands . But I suspect that that situation has probably improved rather that worsened over the last fifty years , particularly if one is open to considering all the options now available .
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: ruben
Date: 2023-03-01 21:02
Julian: I have been associated with two builders of handcrafted clarinets: Guasti in Florence, Italy (ages ago!) and JL Clarinettes in France. Their clarinets are/were no more expensive than, let's say, a Buffet Prestige or a Selmer Privilege. Conclusion: let's encourage independent musical instrument builders by buying and using their fine products made with love.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-03-02 17:08
Absolutely !...I second that !
The "Holy Trinity " don't have the monopoly on divinity . it's the buyers who may tend to get dogmatic about that.Something which will inevitably lead to prices somewhat higher than that which is reflected in the base quality of the product on these big brands.As more people turn to the alternative options , those options grow and the new competition will improve quality and moderate prices throughout the market .
Take Gibson guitars for example . Anyone who buys a new Gibson today,wants to be SEEN playing a GIBSON ..... Not simply HEARD playing guitar . For that there are now many good brand/ model alternatives for more reasonable prices . Not seeing this turn of event until it was already upon them , Gibson guitars basically went belly- up some years ago ,but was baled out to keep- on- keeping-on .
Like Rolls Royce cars , their niche market has come to resemble something of an arse-crack . I'm not suggesting the " Holy Trinity" are destined to end up that way (at least I certainly hope not ), but more competition and people buying other brands will be good for clarinet quality generally and musicians budgets also . It's the way of the jungle .
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-03-02 17:52
I was thinking about how to figure out what a clarinet would cost if it was made entirely in the country where I live, by a person who needs to earn a proper living here. I wondered if looking at Peter Eaton clarinet prices might be the way to figure that out?
I looked and his are £4.5k to £5.5k. That's certainly puts it in perspective for me.
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Author: smokindok
Date: 2023-03-02 20:19
I was unaware production of Peter Eaton clarinets had resumed. That is great news! Glad the pieces of the puzzle were put together to continue building on Peter Eaton’s excellent work.
The making of fine clarinets in a small production shop must truly be a labor of love. Considering the wide range of technical and acoustical knowledge required, the equipment costs, the craftsmanship, the attention to detail needed during every step of manufacture, the time invested in each instrument; it is wonderful that there are brave souls willing to continue on, despite having to compete with the big manufacturers and the cost efficiencies of mass production.
John
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Author: paulyb
Date: 2023-03-02 20:59
smokindok wrote:
> I was unaware production of Peter Eaton clarinets had resumed.
> That is great news! Glad the pieces of the puzzle were put
> together to continue building on Peter Eaton’s excellent
> work.
>
From the Peter Eaton website: https://www.eatonclarinets.com/index.html
Quote:
Production of Eaton clarinets resumed in spring 2022. We plan a limited edition of 50 instruments, concentrating particularly on our large-bore English clarinet, the Elite. I guarantee that these will be the finest instruments we have ever made.
This is interesting news. [Edit: though it is from Spring 2022, so not very new news!]
Post Edited (2023-03-02 21:00)
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2023-03-02 22:35
Fuzzy:
Every cost you attributed and more is relevant and appreciated. But at the risk of pointing out the obvious, your argument's "weakest flank" comes, IMHO, in the phrase
"make our lowly pivot screw"
None of these costs you sight got going for one screw of course but rather the equivalent of millions, whose cost is amortized against the factors you site, divided by the number of goods produced.
Welcome to economies of scale, where the efficiencies of large scale production and the ability to spread fixed costs over large production output greatly reduced those costs per unit produced.
Sure, many hand crafting aspects of clarinet making don't apply, which helps to fairly drive up costs as you cite.
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2023-03-03 00:48
SecondTry,
I didn't realize I had made an argument at all.
Fuzzy
;^)>>>
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2023-03-03 02:51
Fuzzy:
You "argued a point." That point was that clarinets are relatively inexpensive given what goes into making them.
People can agree or disagree. Either way you didn't "argue," you merely presented the reasons why you feel the way you did, which you are entitled to, and can be right or wrong about, but..
...you argued a point....which is not to be confused with arguing. I've done it, as has anyone whose tried to express an opinion here and why they feel the way they do.
There's utterly no harm that should be taken or received by either your arguments (i.e. points,) or politely offered dissenting opinion, when I "argued my point" (in a non argumentative way) about economies of scale and ever reducing average cost ( the idea that the average cost of an item goes down the more of it that is produced as the fixed costs can be allocated to more units produced) as mine was. 
Nobody argued. Everyone was cordial.
Full stop.
Post Edited (2023-03-03 02:54)
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Author: PaulW
Date: 2023-03-04 10:51
Hello Ruben,
I just read your post mentioning Enrico Guardi. You are mentioned in a short documentary video made by one of his nephews - see link; It's called "My Grandfather's Oboe (by Enrico Ventrice)". Regrettably, the workshop is now closed as no one took on the family business.
The video is in Italian, so... you might need a little translation (my wife translated it for me - she is from Florence).
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=4251427771590936
Ciao,
Paul
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