 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Musikat
Date: 2023-02-22 06:06
I just got a new to me Uebel Superior and I'm getting to know it. One of the first things I noticed when I opened the case was that the second ring on the top joint was noticeably higher than the top ring, which isn't the case on my R13. When I put the two joints together that went away and they were the same height. But now I'm wondering if the bridge key is out of adjustment or something. Should I take it to my tech or is this just normal for this instrument?
*new attachments in a later reply
Post Edited (2023-02-23 01:07)
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Author: m1964
Date: 2023-02-22 06:35
Musikat wrote:
> I just got a new to me Uebel Superior and I'm getting to know
> it. One of the first things I noticed when I opened the case
> was that the second ring on the top joint was noticeably higher
> than the top ring, which isn't the case on my R13. When I put
> the two joints together that went away and they were the same
> height. But now I'm wondering if the bridge key is out of
> adjustment due to some other things I am noticing (the 1 and 1
> lower Eb is very sharp, for example). Should I take it to my
> tech or is this just normal for this instrument?
>
1. When not assembled, 2nd ring key on the upper joint will look to be higher than the 1st ring, however it will be fine because when assembled the bridge key of the lower joint will usually bring the 2nd ring of the upper joint into alignment.
What is important that when assembled, the 2nd ring key pad should close when closing/pressing the 3-ring key on the lower joint. There should not be excessive play in the upper jt. 2nd ring key when lower jt. 3-ring key is closed. It often can be regulated by minor twisting of the upper joint in relation to the lower jt.
2. Sharp Eb.
Is it sharp when using "regular" fingering such as L. thumb, 1st, 2nd ring keys + either side or banana key?
Or is it sharp when using alternative fingering: Lt. thumb, 1st. ring+1st. ring on the lower joint? This fingering is always very sharp, on any clarinet.
The clarinet should have been adjusted/checked by the selling dealer (if you bought it new), if in doubt I'd take it back to the dealer.
You also may want to play it for a few days and then take it to the dealer (or your tech) for adjustments if needed. It's not unusual for the some pads needing to be re-seated, spring tension adjusted, etc.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2023-02-22 08:18
>> the second ring on the top joint was noticeably higher than the top ring, which isn't the case on my R13. <<
To add to m1964's post, the adjustment of the bridge keys and the height of the second (D/A key) ring when the sections are not assembled are mostly unrelated (if it's not adjusted it would also affect it to some degree but this is a different case). When assembled, the height will be correct based on the height of the lower bridge key. When not assembled the key can move farther up (the ring) or farther down (the bridge linkage). Many clarinets are made this way. The adjustment only really matters when it is assembled.
However, it is possible to fix this and there is an advantage to it. You can glue a bumper to an upper area of the top bridge key, so that it doesn't move so low (or high for the ring) when not assembled. It is best when this is done to have it if close but not more than its height when assembled (so not to create double action in the bridge linkage).
The reason for this is that it makes it easier to assemble. With the upper bridge key moving lower, the bridge keys can collide when assembling. That's why you hold the D/A key closed when assembling the clarinet. Even knowing they need to hold the D/A key down, some people still occasionally rub the keys when assembling and this can peel the linkage material (not so rare), or at worst case bend something (very rare but happens).
Post Edited (2023-02-23 12:45)
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Author: Musikat
Date: 2023-02-23 01:01
Thank you for the replies, and I realized after I posted that the lower 1 and 1 Eb is often sharp (I guess I was just lucky on my R13 or didn't notice it to the extent it is sharp on this one). But my main question was whether the height of the second ring unassembled is normal and just part of the way this instrument is designed, or whether it is something to have adjusted?
I am attaching better pictures, with my R13 for comparison. It is very noticeably high on the Uebel and was the first thing I noticed about it. The instrument seals well and when assembled seems to be fine, although there is slight play in the bridge when I push on that ring while holding down the right hand rings (maybe 1 mm? I am not good with measurements and am obviously not a tech!)
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Author: paulyb
Date: 2023-02-23 02:32
Judging by the pictures on this website, the photo you've posted would appear to be normal for this clarinet:
https://www.woodwindboutique.com/product/uebel-superior-bb/118
As others have said, if it bothers you it's pretty easy to fix by adding some adjustment material under the upper part of the bridge key on the upper joint.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2023-02-23 12:58
>> the lower 1 and 1 Eb is often sharp <<
This fingering is pretty much always sharp. It is mostly used for clarion Bb as an actual note, or for Eb in some cases (fast line where it's much more comfortable, etc.).
>> although there is slight play in the bridge when I push on that ring while holding down the right hand rings <<
If you mean that, when you only press the right hand ring keys, and then when you physically press the left hand D/A key (second ring) you see it moving down (i.e. pressing the right ring keys doesn't close the D/A key) then it is out of adjustment. Play the 1-1 fingering Eb and Bb and while playing press the key itself (not the ring - the part with pad on it) with your left hand finger. Does the tone improve? If it's out of adjustment it can make it sharper, weaker or not even come out sometimes.
This is a separate issue from the ring/key height when not assembled and it's best to have this adjusted if it's not. The best adjustment for this is for the D/A key to completely close by the right hand key with slightly less pressure than when closing it with your finger.
Also check that the sections are aligned correctly. Having them misalign can cause this to be out of adjustment on most clarinets (very few clarinet have a better design but most don't).
>> But my main question was whether the height of the second ring unassembled is normal and just part of the way this instrument is designed, or whether it is something to have adjusted? <<
See the last two paragraphs in my previous answer, they answer exactly that. In short it is normal. It's not really a part of the "design" so much, but whether they put a bumper to stop it from moving more or not. As long as you never bump the bridge keys when assembling it doesn't matter. It's more convenient to have a bumper there for the reason already mentioned.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-02-23 15:29
Attachment: tenoncork2.png (1042k)
Attachment: P5140001.JPG (683k)
I put a stopper cork under the RH2 ring key linkage to keep it off the deck when the joints are separated, but not to diminish the venting when the joints are assembled as the LH2 pad (the E/B vent) should have plenty of venting which is determined by the venting of the RH ring keys. If there's not enough venting, your lower register E (xoo|ooo) will be stuffy and chances are the C (xxx|ooo) will be stuffy as well.
Some clarinets have a stopper foot formed on the LH2 ring key linkage (eg. Schreiber/Buffet B12 to E12 and Selmer USA/Bundy/Buescher/Signet clarinets) to keep it raised off the deck to facilitate assembly. Most don't and it's not a difficult thing to fit - I usually glue on a 4mm diameter cork disc of the required thickness to the underside of the linkage so there's a small but noticeable gap under it when the joints are assembled and correctly lined up.
Some repairers seem to think the lower edge of the ring keys should never go above the height of the tonehole chimneys when they're released, but that depends on the angle you're looking at them from, the thickness and inside shape of the rings and also how much venting there is - chances are ring keys that don't open high enough won't have enough venting and you'll get a stuffy lower register C and E. More venting is always better than not having enough venting.
It should also be normal practice to hold down the LH2 ring key (along with the throat A key as that will be good practice when you play bass clarinet) during assembly to prevent the linkage between the joints getting mashed up which will chew up the silencing material at best or bend the linkage or even break it off at worst.
See attachments.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2023-02-23 16:21)
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