 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: hotair
Date: 2023-02-17 16:25
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Hello folks, I have come across an old clarinet that has many of the signs of being pretty old B&H but I can't be sure. I would love some help in identifying what it is....
- It had a 1010 no. 2 mouthpiece with it
- None of the joints have visible maker markings
- There is a faint 'MADE BY' stamp on the back of the upper end of the top joint
- There is a 'PATENT PENDING' stamp on the back of the lower joint
- It has an articulated C#/G#
- It has an additional vent on the top joint - forked Bb?
- It doesn't have an Acton vent
Any thoughts?
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Author: ebonite
Date: 2023-02-17 17:04
I think it's a pre-war 1010. It's an unusual one because of the articulated C#/G#, and the forked Bb/Eb. The standard model didn't have these features. That must have been a special order.
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Author: hotair
Date: 2023-02-17 21:21
Thanks ebonite. Its an interesting instrument. Looks like i need to do some reeding up on the pre-war 1010s. Are there any good resources out there?
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Author: ebonite
Date: 2023-02-17 22:03
hotair wrote:
> Thanks ebonite. Its an interesting instrument. Looks like i
> need to do some reeding up on the pre-war 1010s. Are there any
> good resources out there?
Actually, this forum is probably the best source of information about them. There were two variants. One was stamped "London and Paris" and the other simply "London". There are differences in the keywork. Yours is the London one I think.
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Author: hotair
Date: 2023-02-17 22:07
Thanks you. Are they still a viable instrument to play if in good repair and free of cracks etc? Very strange that it lacks the maker mark etc.
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Author: ebonite
Date: 2023-02-17 22:13
hotair wrote:
> Thanks you. Are they still a viable instrument to play if in
> good repair and free of cracks etc? Very strange that it lacks
> the maker mark etc.
By the standards of modern instruments, the tuning is hard to control. But the good ones have a great sound.
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Author: hotair
Date: 2023-02-17 22:34
How does one identify London vs London and Paris (other than markings)?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-02-17 23:40
Check the bore diameter at the middle tenon as 1010s should have a bore diameter of 15.2mm - your typical modern Buffet bore diameter is around 14.6mm measured at the same point.
I knew a local player who had a matching set of these pre-war B&H clarinets but they were the standard 17 key 6 ring models. They did have the Bis key spatula for LH1 to offer an alternative upper register Bb fingering, although it's redundant on this one as it has the LH forked Eb/Bb mechanism (the extra ring for LH3) giving the xox|ooo fingering for Eb or Bb which is in tune in both registers, unlike the Bis key (and long xoo|xoo) fingering.
The Boosey & Hawkes logo on the top joint was normally stamped with Gothic script on these clarinets, only it was either done very lightly, not done at all or it was sanded out at some point in this clarinet's history during an overhaul.
Acton vents didn't become standard on 1010s until much later on and earlier ones were a different design to those seen on '70s and '80s 1010s.
Is there a serial number on the bell or anywhere else?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: ebonite
Date: 2023-02-18 01:44
hotair wrote:
> How does one identify London vs London and Paris (other than markings)?
The "London and Paris" ones usually didn't have the Bis key for the LH1. Also they had a single post for both of the left hand little finger levers, while the "London" ones had two posts like on more modern clarinets. There may be exceptions though
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Author: Reformed
Date: 2023-02-18 11:48
It really looks like a pre-war 1010.
Are there matching serial numbers on both joints, the barrel and the bell?
There could also have been a matched mouthpiece, but yours looks a bit more recent. I'd guess that the chamber has parallel walls rather than an "A" frame. The more modern mouthpiece should still be in tune.
My first pre-war 1010 was exactly that key work and was, I believe, the last 1010 before the war stopped production. The key work was nickel plated, possibly due to war time. Unfortunately the instrument had been badly abused, but served me well for at least 10 more years.
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2023-02-18 15:38
Attachment: prewar_1010_logo.jpg (44k)
There is no doubt that this is a prewar 1010. The keywork is identical to what was being produced around 1938 - so most probably not a London & Paris model. It's odd that there is no serial number - see the attached picture for where it would have been. But it's not implausible that it might have worn off with use. You might like to check the bottom joint, where the serial number is normally on the front, just below the very lowest pillar. If there is no serial number there, then that can't be due to wear, so we would have to conclude that this instrument never got an official number - possibly related to it being done specially as a piece of non-standard keywork.
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Author: graham
Date: 2023-02-18 18:59
Similar example her: https://www.clarinetsdirect.net/store/p139/Boosey-and-Hawkes-Clarinet.html#/ But I am curious about the absence of the crow foot feature for the F/C key when playing E/B. Most 30s 1010s have the crow foot, and so does my 1955 1010. So why is it different here?
graham
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2023-02-18 20:16
Graham: I have a pair of 1938 1010s, close in serial number. The keywork design is very similar between the instruments, except that the A has a crow's foot, but the Bb has the levers on pad cups characteristic of postwar instruments, just like the example you list. So maybe that new mechanism was just being brought in during 1938?
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Author: Reformed
Date: 2023-02-18 20:44
I currently have 5 pre-war 1010s from 1938-42.
None of them have a crows foot.
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Author: graham
Date: 2023-02-18 21:00
But my example is 1955 and has the crow’s foot. There seems to be inconsistency in use of either mechanism. Perhaps different individual technicians had the ability to choose.
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Author: RobinEarle
Date: 2023-02-18 23:58
The Patents Pending applied to the little guard by the Left Hand lever array. I had a model like this which I sold, the articulated G# mechanism meant that one of the bridge levers was much thinner than usual and you had to line it up with the inside edge (I think)
I have a battered pair of pre-war 1010 with this patent pending guard, but I have not seen it subsequently.
The 1010 classification will be confirmed by the bore size. London/Paris models were made in Paris - but there was some further work done in London sometimes with additional serial numbers added as appropriate.
London Paris clarinets were some time sold with Bakelite barrels and bells - all given a serial number - perhaps for economic reasons, or to avoid cracks to these vulnerable joints.
robinearle22@gmail.com
Post Edited (2023-02-19 03:55)
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Author: graham
Date: 2023-02-19 01:48
Perhaps there were years they discontinued the crows foot and then returned to it only to change back again later. The Clarinets Direct site has a few examples of later 1010s with the crows foot arrangement.
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2023-02-19 01:59
Graham: I think what you said previously is more likely: that different craftsmen made things differently. I believe that in those days they didn't have assembly lines, and that a single individual was mostly in charge of a given instrument. So you can imagine that it took some time to retrain everyone in new designs - or perhaps they didn't bother, as long as the old designs still sold.
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