 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ElizabethMH
Date: 2023-02-16 22:59
Attachment: D50C26B3-2415-4584-94FB-B03CD248A937.jpeg (1272k)
Attachment: 93CEF653-2362-445B-AD68-D77384F846FD.jpeg (1858k)
Hi there,
Back in December under a different account (could no longer log in with it) I asked why I was getting this grunt at the start of middle B. So there were some helpful suggestions, including taking it to a tech. So I was about to, but I decided to take a closer look at the pads/holes. The edges of the holes are notched. Is it possible that this is causing the ugly sound? I certainly didn’t chip the holes. I have hardly played on the instrument (about 6 months when I bought it). I take good care of it. I bought it from my local woodwind shop.
(Apologies for the multiple posts but I couldn’t get the photos to attach and I didn’t realise that my message kept posting.)
Elizabeth
Post Edited (2023-02-16 23:04)
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Author: lydian
Date: 2023-02-16 23:23
Yes, any notch that cause the pad not to seal are a problem. The hole needs to be flat, smooth and uniform and form an airtight seal.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2023-02-16 23:36
The notches that I see in the photos (I'm glad you finally got them to attach) aren't along the pad seat and wouldn't cause leaks under the pads.
If the original thread was under a different screen name (account) maybe you could give a reference to it or give the original name you used so we could read through the advice you've already gotten.
There are a lot of possible explanations for a grunt that happens specifically with long B. Some questions:
1. Does B grunt only when you tongue it or only when you slur up to it?
2. Does the grunt happen when you play an articulated (tongued) scale going *down* to it?
3. Do grunts happen on any other note?
Karl
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2023-02-17 00:25
All other things being in good shape, I'd look to the height of the register key. May require a tiny bit of adjustment in height from the register tube or maybe the installation of a "pinnochio" in the pad.
B.
Post Edited (2023-02-17 00:27)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-02-17 01:12
I don't recall all the posts from then, but assuming that you haven'e had a tech look at it, the easiest thing to do is check the crow's foot (under the stack of four RH pinky keys). Just press the low E lever for the Left hand. See if there is any play with the Low F pad on the Right. If that's ok, check (while depressing the same LH low E key) to see if there is any play with the lowest big pad. Chances are it's one of those. A negative pressure test of the lower joint (seal the bottom with palm of RH while covering holes and depressing low E key with Right hand) should expose a minor leak down there that would cause issues with the middle B).
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: ElizabethMH
Date: 2023-02-17 01:18
The original thread:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=501399&t=501399
Ignore the bit about the mpc -I’ve been using a different reed and mpc and the problem persists
Karl, I thought also that as these chips are on the outside and wouldn’t cause the issue.
I did try to test for a leak as Paul suggested but I couldn’t detect anything.
The grunt occurs right at the start of the note and it then settles. It is most noticeable if tounged but also seems to just not blow when slurred. It’s better when playing an articulated scale down to it, I think. The middle C also grunts a bit but not as much as the B.
I think I just better take it to the shop.
Elizabeth
Post Edited (2023-02-17 14:32)
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Author: ebonite
Date: 2023-02-17 01:58
Sometimes you can get a better response if you slightly open the throat A key when you play the B
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Author: lydian
Date: 2023-02-17 03:02
I agree the chips are harmless. My initial post was before you posted any pictures.
I've found the most likely culprit on middle B is leaky or out-of-sync fingers. So make sure your Right ring finger for sure is fully covering the hole at the exact moment you put down your other fingers. That's the one that can shift a little when you put down your Right pinky.
To test whether sync is your issue, start low and work your way up and over the break, but when you're playing throat G and A, go ahead and put down all your RH keys so all you have to close when you hit B is your LH.
If the "grunt" means dropping to the lower register, then that means your LH thumb is out of sync.
Post Edited (2023-02-17 03:19)
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Author: Pokenerd
Date: 2023-02-17 04:56
this might be a different issue that what is being discussed here but something that I’ve been wondering as well; the middle of the staff B on all the instruments that I tried were all kinda stuffy? I was thinking that it sounds like that because the air comes out of the bell instead of the holes on the side(I couldn’t think of a more intelligent term)
probably the best way to test my theory is to get a basset clarinet another reason to get one
Minjun
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Author: ElizabethMH
Date: 2023-02-17 14:48
Hello all. Thanks again for your feedback.
I have checked the crow's foot as you suggest Paul. There doesn't seem to me to be any excessive play.
Fully that you mention synching the fingers lydian. I do find the right ring finger hole on this student Yamaha to be rather big for my finger, but I have now gotten used to it. (I have an old restored clarinet doesn't have the grunty problem so I'm pretty sure it's the Yamaha).
It's perhaps a dry pad(s) not sealing or something needing tightening up (the Yamaha is rather old now - bought in 2004 and I don't really know its history. I thought I was buying a new instrument, but It came with a 6C mpc, rather than the 4C it should have). I'll bring it into the shop because it is most frustrating.
Elizabeth
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Author: lydian
Date: 2023-02-18 00:10
Could be pads since your other clarinet doesn't have the problem. But 2004 isn't that old for an instrument. My Vito which I bought used back in the 70's is still fine with mostly original pads.
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Author: GML
Date: 2023-02-28 14:16
recently i had the same problem. Accidentally i saw the reason as i played in front of the mirror : the ab/eb-key was fluttering when playing middle B and C.
The tension of the spring which normally holds the key closed was to soft.
Well, i could fix it by myself.
BTW i am new here in this forum. I am a hobbyist, after over ten years of intermission
now playing my "old" clarinet again.
Gerhard
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-02-28 15:17
Gerhard,
Thanks for mentioning this issue. I find that the tension of the right hand pinky Ab/Eb key spring should be just a little more than one would prefer. That is, you want the spring tensions of the group of four paddle keys to be very close to one another....but that one should be just a little more firm for that very reason. Even beyond the flutter which to me says the tension was almost non-existent, a small amount of leak caused by the air pressure down there will result in significant loss of resonance.
..............Paul Aviles
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