 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2023-01-16 05:16
When it comes to reducing the loudness of the sound that comes from the clarinet--it's need here being to respect the rights of those in our proximity when we practice at home, I'm of the opinion that nobody's really come out with a great solution yet.
I respectfully continue to hold that opinion despite Buffet's recent Clarimate product offering. My idea of muting the clarinet involves muffling, not synthesizing its sound, the latter appearing to be Buffet's approach.
The goal for me is to minimize differences in how one plays when muting their sound versus not. Items that stuff the barrel don't seem practical, and items that stuff the bell, well, I suppose they not only change the playing experience, but only for 2 (full fingered) notes on the instrument. (We all know that sound comes out of the next open hole, which usually isn't the bell.)
I'd going to categorize the ways that I see to do this muffling into two basic groups. One involves encapsulating the player and clarinet, like a sound booth, and the second involves encapsulating just the clarinet.
As the latter is much cheaper to tinker with, although someday if I retire and move into an apartment I may end up with the former, I began searching for tube shaped products large enough in length and diameter to hold a (Soprano) Clarinet, that I could repurpose for this effort. My first item was a light plastic poster tube. I found one on ebay more than long enough and started cutting holes in it with my electric hand saw.
At about 4" of internal diameter this was an expensive lesson in what doesn't work. Limiting sound is in part about limited the size of the necessary holes that the vessel requires for hands and mouth. This means being able to insert the hands into the vessel up to the wrists, and still have enough internal space within the vessel to maneuver. 4" of internal diameter won't get you that space.
Combing the aisles of a big box store I went in search of a section of very large diameter PVC pipe, but with no such size on the shelves, an 8" internal diameter cardboard tube, like the kind you put in the ground and fill with concrete to form the pillar of some building's foundation, would have to do for attempt #2.
I cut the tube's length down to a few inches longer than my clarinet and stuffed the bottom with 4" foam I picked up at a fabric store and cut to size with a knife. I then measured the center point of where the hands sit when playing, and cut circle like holes in the sides, at 180 degree angles to one another. These holes, in order to comfortably play, had to but about 4.5" inches in diameter (sigh...so much for wrist size), the left hand hole being larger to accommodate hand position for throat tones and left pink actuated levers.
I put the same 4" thick foam piece on top, cutting a hole in the middle around the same size of the clarinet's diameter. To play, the clarinet goes in first, minus the barrel and mouthpiece, then the top piece of foam, which encapsulates the top joint above the top of the octave key, followed by the barrel and mouthpiece.
I will soon wrap the outside of the tube in 2" foam, cutting holes where the hands get inserted. We'll see if this lowers the decibels somewhat.
I think I may need to try the 12" diameter cardboard concrete pillar form. 8" is just enough space when large hand holes are made. I'm thinking that with the 12" size I may be able to stick my hands in further, up to my narrower wrists, making for smaller hand holes and hopefully less sound. At this size the tube will probably need some sort of stand.
I'm going to try to attach some pictures. Comments and ideas are welcome.
Post Edited (2023-01-16 05:17)
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2023-01-16 05:56
Interesting project.
Have you seen the saxophone "bags" which contain holes for left and right hand, plus a hole for the neck/mouthpiece...and sometimes a small hole for the neckstrap?
I wonder if something similar made out of neoprene with shock cording at the top and bottom would work for clarinet. Perhaps with a section of something more breathable for condensation issues?
Fuzzy
;^)>>>
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Author: donald
Date: 2023-01-16 07:03
I looked for a sop sax "bag" to see if i could use it for clarinet but had no luck.... if you know where to get one let me know!
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2023-01-16 08:55
Hi Donald,
Unfortunately, I haven't found anything made specifically for sop sax or clarinet. Saxbird seems to offer them for alto and tenor sax, and El Saxco Silent Bag seems to offer/have offered them for at least alto.
Some reviewers stated that the bags cut volume by about 50% (regardless of what the marketing materials claim). Some reviewers love that, others think an issue arises in not hearing your own playing well enough to make the minor adjustments you'd normally make during playing. Yet some reviewers say that 50% reduction isn't enough - that it needs to be even greater to keep the neighbors happy (granted, these are saxophone players).
Here's a guy using the Saxbird (though he calls it Bird Sax) on Tenor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BFsKKA6sVQ&t=420s
Here's a guy using the El Saxco Silent Bag:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsL9NC_IEMM
Warmest Regards,
Fuzzy
;^)>>>
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2023-01-16 09:56
Thank for the link, Secondtry.
The "mutes" I was looking at were/are softer-bodied.
More like this (except with denser fabric/material): https://www.wwbw.com/Protec-Instrument-Cover-Clarinet-L85784-L85784000000000.wwbw?source=TWWR5J1BB
I did find the one critique about the sax mutes interesting though - the one about blocking too much sound so that the intricacies of playing were blocked from the player. It seems that a proper design might include some type of feedback loop or open vent towards the player?
Anyway - best of luck on your prototype. Would love to hear/see how it turns out!
Fuzzy
;^)>>>
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2023-01-16 20:09
Fuzzy wrote:
> Thank for the link, Secondtry.
>
> The "mutes" I was looking at were/are softer-bodied.
>
> More like this (except with denser fabric/material):
> https://www.wwbw.com/Protec-Instrument-Cover-Clarinet-L85784-L85784000000000.wwbw?source=TWWR5J1BB
>
I purchased this fabric item you link, which sits in the plastic in came in, untouched. Acquired, not with the original intent to inhibit germs, but when I was looking for a vessel for my mute, to encapsulate instrument sound, I thought there was something I could put around this bag to reduce loudness, but couldn't find much of a solution.
One far fetched idea I had was to mimic the space this bag occupies with some rigid item, stick it in something similar to a bucket, and pour this two part post foam mix, some extra of which I have lying around from a home project, in the bucket:
Post Foam
I thought, once cured, and the "bucket" cut away and discarded, I'd slice the hardened foam lengthwise, remove and discard the object on the inside, cut hand and mouthpiece holes, and either hinge the foam pieces, or more likely strap them together with the clarinet inside. This is an outdoor project (in addition to a "pipe dream") not best done in the cold months.
(Edit: now that I think of this, perhaps the 8" cardboard post form of my "version 2," inside of a 12" cardboard post form, may be something to try when using the 2 part expanding post foam.)
> I did find the one critique about the sax mutes interesting
> though - the one about blocking too much sound so that the
> intricacies of playing were blocked from the player. It seems
> that a proper design might include some type of feedback loop
> or open vent towards the player?
There seems to be a tradeoff in compactness in size of the muting vessel and the "freeness of blow." Still more, every opening (vent) is an opportunity for sound to escape, and baffling such openings: in other words the creation of a complex path for the sound of such an opening to travel and dissipate somewhat requires larger size to accommodate the space of such pathways.
Example of a baffle box.
>
> Anyway - best of luck on your prototype. Would love to
> hear/see how it turns out!
>
> Fuzzy
> ;^)>>>
Keep you posted.
Post Edited (2023-01-16 20:23)
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Author: A Brady
Date: 2023-01-16 20:50
I have numerous colleagues here in the NYC area who own Whisper Rooms, which are phone booth or larger size enclosures which have soundproofing materials installed. Some have built in recording equipment, ventilation systems, etc.
They aren’t inexpensive, but they really do work quite well, and are a must for someone who must put the hours in who lives in an apartment surrounded by neighbors.
I even know a couple, both of whom are reed doublers on Broadway, who each have their own whisper room in their apartment.
AB
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2023-01-17 20:57
A Brady wrote:
> I have numerous colleagues here in the NYC area who own Whisper
> Rooms, which are phone booth or larger size enclosures which
> have soundproofing materials installed. Some have built in
> recording equipment, ventilation systems, etc.
> They aren’t inexpensive, but they really do work quite well,
> and are a must for someone who must put the hours in who lives
> in an apartment surrounded by neighbors.
> I even know a couple, both of whom are reed doublers on
> Broadway, who each have their own whisper room in their
> apartment.
>
The more I research the more I have become convinced that sound attenuation (i.e. reduced the loudness of something as heard by some) is a product of the right materials (more than one material as different things block sound in different ways) and good ole fashion mass/weight. This video features a room constructed of vertical studs that by design are not as thick as the wall, and that includes fiberglass insulation in the (internal) wall, not for thermal efficiency, but sound reduction, as well as and a Canadian wall sound reduction product called Sonopan
So it's likely that as you mention, I'll ultimately end up someday buildng or buying a sound room.
e.g. https://youtu.be/D2TaWG4aeEU
I was hoping, using the e-sax device as an example, that materials (e.g. foam) could bear the brunt of dissipating the sound--and maybe they can such that blame for any shorcomings can fall on my design approach. A couple of months ago I had tried this with less than the poster's level of success--again, limitations quite possibly being my fault.
https://youtu.be/_iBdXdMDmIE
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The Clarinet Pages
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