 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2022-11-16 06:18
It's pure curiosity if anyone knows.
In the cane world, mother nature and her diversity do.
But I was wondering what it is about the recipe for Legere's that make them weaker or stronger? It doesn't seem to be physical/size.
Side question: can changing Legere strength help bring pitch up, and if so, in what reed strength direction, stronger or softer synthetics?
TIA
Post Edited (2022-11-16 06:26)
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Author: Paul Globus
Date: 2022-11-16 12:18
The answer to your question is in the question itself. It's the recipe, which is ever so slightly different for each strength (2.5, 2.75, 3, 3.25, 3.5, etc.).
As it is with cane, the design -- width, length, vamp -- for a particular type of reed, say B-flat clarinet, European Signature, never changes.
This ability to control the "strength" (i.e. how much air it takes to get the reed to vibrate) is what gives Legere a huge leg-up on manufacturers of cane reeds.
Paul Globus
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2022-11-16 17:17
I would say all the factors are proprietary information. Though they say themselves how much work they put into determining the formula of the plastic itself. You can see (if you have them) the different types of material they have used for the SAME style of reed over the years.
There is also some sort of patterning they can impose on the structure as well. There were tighter. less patterned versions and now the Euro cut exhibits a zig-zag pattern that repeats throughout the structure (not sure how the building of the reed allow this to happen).
The difference in materials was most illustrative between the Signature Soprano sax reeds and the Signature European Cut reeds BEFORE the strengths were printed on a coating over the "bark" of the reed. The Soprano sax reeds were much clearer (see through) and had a more brittle compliance and sound (I preferred these in certain situations). They have since dropped the clearer version of the Signature Soprano sax reed..........a shame.
Back in the day with the different versions named after Canadian Provences you could see more of the traditional cane sort of differences in the Legeres. Some had more of a spine in the vamp or the thickness (up and down) of the material itself was different. That isn't to say that they still do this. It would be just another variable to fine tune what they do.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: Mojo
Date: 2022-11-16 19:14
I do not have inside info. But I think a lot of the reed makers just sort them after they make them. If the distribution is not centered on what the market wants, they adjust the batch or cut.
MojoMP.com
Mojo Mouthpiece Work LLC
MojoMouthpieceWork@yahoo.com
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Author: Paul Globus
Date: 2022-11-19 21:25
That's exactly correct. Cane reeds are sorted after they are made. Everyone does it that way.
The cut reed is put into a machine where it is subjected to a short burst of air. This flexes the tip. The degree to which it flexes (which is precisely measured by a gauge) determines the "strength" and whether it gets put into a box of 2.5s or 3s or 3.5s or 4s, etc.
I've seen this process many times at a number of cane reed manufacturing facilities. The idea that cane reeds are cut differently -- thicker or thinner -- to obtain different strengths is a myth.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2022-11-21 14:45
Quote:
The cut reed is put into a machine where it is subjected to a short burst of air. This flexes the tip. The degree to which it flexes (which is precisely measured by a gauge) determines the "strength" and whether it gets put into a box of 2.5s or 3s or 3.5s or 4s, etc.
I've seen this process many times at a number of cane reed manufacturing facilities. The idea that cane reeds are cut differently -- thicker or thinner -- to obtain different strengths is a myth. While I can see this being a big deal with cane reeds (where the cane grows wild, and so density can be all over the place depending on which section of cane, year, environment, if it had more or less sun, etc.) can vary, with synthetic reeds I do think there's more control over it.
Putting my own logic to it (which by all means is faulty often enough!), I'd say that legere has formulas for molds of ... for example, "light, medium, medium heavy, and heavy" strengths (although I think it's more fine than that). And then after those are done, THEN I can see the puff of air test that Paul talked about is applied. With plastics or any synthetic product, you can get a LOT of control.
(pure hypthetical coming up)I'm willing to bet the reason there are quarter strengths is because when they forced 50 ml of liquid into the standard reed mold, thereby trying to guarantee a 3, they then test them. There's a specific tolerance for 3. If it flexes more, it's now 2.75. If it flexes less, it's now a 3.25. But I'm willing to bet tolerances for manmade/machine made stuff like this is tight enough that they KNOW it's not a 2.5 or 2.75.
I'm thinking about how precise CNC machining is, and how precise for YEARS the machines boring out clarinets, creating mouthpieces, etc. are. Cane? Yeah. That stuff is unpredictable. liquid plastic in a mold? I think it's pretty damned predictable.
US Army Japan Band
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Author: donald
Date: 2022-11-21 15:25
Legere reeds are NOT molded. They are made by laying down strips of the plastic material. The strength is determined by variation in the plastic formula. When Guy originally launched them at cfest 98 his prototypes had numerous strength grades- I recall at least 4 or 5 steps between each half strength. This allowed the selection of a Reed of very exact strength, but that many options was not practical for production or marketing.
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Author: donald
Date: 2022-11-21 16:02
The "laying down strips" I describe above is a form of 3d printing. Of course when these reeds were first conceived 3d printing was not commonplace (certainly there were no "home printers") and this process was revolutionary and offered unparalleled control of the profile/dimensions.
This high level of precision has an unexpected downside - as the Reed is perfectly symmetrical Reed placement becomes more critical.
The dimensions now being highly accurate, and the production now having control over the material strength, was intended to result in accurate and predictable Reed STRENGTH. However mass production appears to have derailed this outcome to some extent.
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