 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: senexclarinetta
Date: 2022-10-28 23:09
I'm returning to playing clarinet after a 20-year break. I used to be a competent intermediate (All-State/college marching band) but it's been a while. My E11 is being repadded/rebuilt, but I need a new mouthpiece. I played only on the stock mouthpiece (never knew that upgrading was an option, somehow!)
Standard advice is to test a bunch of mouthpieces but at this point I'm still trying to recover my embouchure. I'm not sure I'd trust a test. But I'm thinking I might as well not relearn on my old mouthpiece. I'm hoping to improve enough for the local concert band.
So, my question to you all: which ones ought I to be considering? Google is unfortunately unhelpful as it mostly reproduces ad copy Vandoren B45? 5RV? Don't stress too much as preferences will change anyway?
Thanks all!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed
Date: 2022-10-28 23:37
Certainly Vandoren is an option and they are widely available. For a variety of reasons, I would would consider getting a Fobes debut, which while relatively inexpensive, is a really good mouthpiece which plays extremely well. It is better than mouthpieces out there that cost far more. That would get your playing nice and solid on something that plays well with good specs. Once you feel confident, you can consider upgrading (or not).
If you were to upgrade, you could consider staying with Clark Fobes designs and move to one of his higher level options- Nova or 10K, which are both really good. If not, there are countless mouthpiece on the market you could consider at that time.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk
Date: 2022-10-28 23:42
A few good production-line mouthpieces that have middle-of-the-road (as opposed to more extreme) facings are:
Vandoren M13 Lyre (probably Series 13 if you're in the U.S.)
Vandoren M15 (ditto)
D'Addario Reserve X5
Two that are classified as entry-level or "student" models but that play easily:
Clark Fobes Debut model
Yamaha 4C
But I wouldn't so summarily dismiss the stock mouthpiece if it's in good (undamaged) condition. None of the Buffet stock mouthpieces I ever tried was anything I'd want to stay with, and some were "unidentified mouthpiece-shaped objects" best used as doorstops, but all but the worst could get you back into a place from which you could make better decisions about what to invest time in.
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: senexclarinetta
Date: 2022-10-29 00:06
I am in the U.S.
The mouthpiece I suspect is playable, but it does have some pretty serious bite mark dents on the top (18yo me had enthusiastic but suboptimal technique)
I've read up on facings but I don't have a good sense of the correlation between the tip opening/facing and what it's like to play -- or any idea at all about how it might compare to the stock mouthpiece. E.g., are stock mouthpieces typically "closed" or "open"?
Thanks for the help, all.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David H. Kinder
Date: 2022-10-29 00:49
In my opinion (coming back after 20 years myself), I would not go with a '13-series' Vandoren mouthpiece unless you have a shorter barrel for your clarinet. E-11 clarinets often have either a 66 or 67mm barrel. The 13-series Vandoren mouthpieces often cause the player to play flat, and you can't make the instrument shorter unless you have a shorter barrel, such as a 64 or 65mm.
I'd start with a Vandoren B45 mouthpiece as a start. They're widely available. The Profile 88 version will have a steeper angle so it may be more comfortable.
The other I'd consider would be the 5RV lyre.
I'm re-starting with a Ridenour Homage mouthpiece, but I did buy it at a good discount since I also bought a Ridenour clarinet at the same time. I do recommend it, but it's $225 by itself. If you're buying one of their clarinets, you could get it for about half of that if purchasing at the same time (which was what I did).
Tom Ridenour discussing the new Homage mouthpiece:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTTV6XYO6z4
Getting back into playing after 20 years.
Ridenour AureA Bb clarinet
Vandoren M15 Profile 88 (non-13) mouthpiece
Vandoren Optimum Silver ligature (plate 1)
Vandoren blue-box #3.5 reeds
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Max S-D
Date: 2022-10-29 01:30
I'd second the recommendation for the Fobes Debut. They are really very good, and not just for the money. I've recommended those to several people starting over on the clarinet over the years and they've been quite happy with them. I'm guessing that some latent muscle memory will return sooner than a raw beginner and that will mean you'll hit the limitations of a mouthpiece-shaped-object sooner as well. The Fobes will be enough to keep you from having to buy another mouthpiece until you've played enough to actually form preferences about how you want to sound and what kind of feel you are looking for that can only come with sufficiently-developed embouchure and voicing.
The biggest danger at this point is using something defective or extreme that will force you into weird habits to compensate. The Fobes is a relatively conservative, straightforward design, consistently executed (one example is as good as another). That will allow you to build good technique that will transfer to anything else you want to play down the line. It will certainly not hold you back from playing beautiful music!
I know a few doublers who use them professionally and sound very good.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2022-10-29 01:56
I'd also stand behind the idea of getting the Fobes Debut. I have two custom Fobes and a 10K CF+. I had the opportunity to try a Fobes Debut and found it to be quite similar to its much more expensive cousins.
As for Vandoren, I'm always surprised at the recommendations for the B45 which has a fairly open facing. You always have more "built in" control of tone and pitch with medium/closed facings such as the M13 (I prefer the NON-Lyre myself). More open mouthpieces are ok if you are heading toward a certain way of playing that requires more flexibility of pitch and sound such as jazz (but not necessarily.....you can play great jazz on closede mouthpieces too).
Also there are the REALLY consistently made ESM MCK-1 mouthpieces. They are made out of an acrylic substance and they are pretty much all CNC machined. You can play a bunch of one facing and not really be able to tell them apart!
..............Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: senexclarinetta
Date: 2022-10-29 03:03
Thanks!
I'm using the stock barrel so I suspect the advice to avoid the 13 series is apt.
Lots of love for the Fobes Debut! I'd not looked seriously at it assuming due to its price that it was perhaps not well made. Obviously I managed to have a lot of fun on a stock mouthpiece so perhaps I shouldn't stress too much.
Medium/closed: easier to control? Open: more "bendy?"
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed
Date: 2022-10-29 03:52
One of the best things about the Debut is that they are well designed and made so you can just focus on playing and not on messing around with equipment.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2022-10-29 04:19
edium/closed: easier to control? Open: more "bendy?"
In short........yes
................Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SecondTry
Date: 2022-10-29 04:50
senexclarinetta wrote:
> I'm returning to playing clarinet after a 20-year break. I
> used to be a competent intermediate (All-State/college marching
> band) but it's been a while. My E11 is being repadded/rebuilt,
> but I need a new mouthpiece. I played only on the stock
> mouthpiece (never knew that upgrading was an option, somehow!)
>
> Standard advice is to test a bunch of mouthpieces but at this
> point I'm still trying to recover my embouchure. I'm not sure
> I'd trust a test. But I'm thinking I might as well not relearn
> on my old mouthpiece. I'm hoping to improve enough for the
> local concert band.
>
> So, my question to you all: which ones ought I to be
> considering? Google is unfortunately unhelpful as it mostly
> reproduces ad copy Vandoren B45? 5RV? Don't stress too much as
> preferences will change anyway?
>
> Thanks all!
I'd like to "second" people's suggestion to avoid mouthpieces like Vandoren's B45.
IMHO it is just too open a facing for someone reacquainting their face muscles to the instrument after considerable time away from play, and all else equal makes play harder to control.
Many of the other suggestions, such as the Fobes or M13/M15 from Vandoren though I'd think excellent choices--certainly having nothing against Vandoren products in general.
My intent is not to disparage the B45 but to simply suggest it not a good fit in this situation.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: senexclarinetta
Date: 2022-10-29 05:32
I appreciate the insight! Didn't read it as anti- anything, but just providing needed context.
While I'm picking your brains - reeds? Start at a 2.5 again?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Musikat
Date: 2022-10-29 05:46
You could also consider a Behn Overture, which is comparable to a Fobes Debut. Both are by reputable mouthpiece designers, and like others have said, designed to help players just focus on playing.
My teenage son started on a yamaha 4C. Very quickly I ordered the Overture and it made a big difference in both his tone and ability to play. Now he uses a Behn Prescott (I ordered it for me but didn't stick with it) and Vandoren blue box 3s. I would start with Vandoren 2.5 and work up to 3. If you don't mind spending the money, even better would be Behn Aria 3s (they run soft but play very consistently and with a nice tone). Stay away from Rico, IMO.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SecondTry
Date: 2022-10-29 07:49
senexclarinetta wrote:
> I appreciate the insight! Didn't read it as anti- anything,
> but just providing needed context.
>
> While I'm picking your brains - reeds? Start at a 2.5 again?
Hi again.
I'm going to throw out a couple of thoughts on reed strength and type then offer my $0.02.
1) Mark Nuccio of the Houston Symphony, formerly the NY Phil has a quote I like, "play on the weakest strength reed that doesn't compromise your artistry."
2) Follow the reed strength guidelines of your mouthpiece maker. Someone who plays a "3" strength reed on an open mouthpiece like the B45 might need a "4'" strength reed on an M13 or M15 with a more closed facing.
I recommend you start with cane reeds, and you're probably not going to find 2.5 or 3 strength (much as this is hardly a standard across manufacturers) too soft no matter how close a facing your mouthpiece of choice is given your reentry into the craft.
Once you find a strength you like I'd have you consider buying a couple of Legere (Euro) synthetic reeds at that strength or maybe a 1/2 or 1/4 strength lower than cane you like.
They're not cheap but they are very competitively priced for their length of service compared to cane, and switching them off will, I believe, make them last longer.
I don't use Legeres. Still more I think my best cane is better than a Legere. But for you, I highly recommend them. Here's why.
While some of the most consummate professionals use them exclusively, for the beginning or re-entering player, Legere's allow one to approach the clarinet more like, well, the flute, in the sense that the reed, like the flute's head joint, becomes more of a constant.
You probably don't want to be in the business of adjusting reeds. You want to slap a reed on and know it plays reasonably well and consistently.
I often wonder how many fewer students would have given up clarinet in the early stages if Legeres were around when I was young.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: senexclarinetta
Date: 2022-10-29 18:47
Thanks! I had an excellent public music education but no private study (and not a lot of money - played on a lot of cracked Rico reeds at the beginning...) so I didn't have a "go-to" set-up to return to.
The Legere reeds are intriguing - I could see myself getting into the weeds of adjusting reeds but with a lot of competing priorities the idea of reducing the number of variables/obstacles to playing seems to be the prudent course.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony F
Date: 2022-10-29 18:56
I'd support the Fobes Debut or the Vandoren B45 or BD5 as good starting points for a returning player. I've read some negative reports of the B45, but my experience does not support this. I played one for some years and could make it do anything I needed it to do with a 3.0 Vd reed. I then used a Fobes Debut for some time until I found a Fobes Sanfransisco CF+. Don't use a 13 series mouthpiece on your E11, you'll have tuning issues.
Tony F.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk
Date: 2022-10-29 20:32
Tony F wrote:
> Don't use
> a 13 series mouthpiece on your E11, you'll have tuning issues.
>
Tony, I've had students who played Series 13s on their E11 clarinets without any noticeable tuning issues. What kind of problems are you referring to?
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony F
Date: 2022-10-30 03:23
"Tony, I've had students who played Series 13s on their E11 clarinets without any noticeable tuning issues. What kind of problems are you referring to?"
I guess it depends on the individual instrument. I've found that with the 13 series mouthpieces you're right at the end of the tuning window, with no "Wriggle Room" left for tuning. Not a problem if you're not playing in an ensemble, but can be a problem if you are. Easily avoided by not using the 13-series mouthpieces. They work fine on the R13, which they were designed for.
Tony F.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed
Date: 2022-10-30 03:35
"How does the Nova compare to the Debut? I *think* they have the same facing"
The Nova is an excellent mouthpiece which plays very comfortably. The big difference is that the Debut is acrylic and the Nova is a hard rubber Babbitt blank.
Post Edited (2022-10-30 16:10)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ursa
Date: 2022-11-02 11:09
I realise I'm a little late to this thread, but...
I'd also suggest a Fobes Debut for a comeback player. They're very consistent and their response and timbral opulence rivals that of much more expensive mouthpieces.
That said, I have a stock Buffet plastic mouthpiece in my studio and find it to be a decent performer. If (and only if) the facing on your Buffet mouthpiece is undamaged, you could put a black Vandoren mouthpiece patch on the beak--thus concealing the bite marks and preventing further damage--and use that to get by with for now.
The Yamaha 4C keeps coming up as a recommended mouthpiece, but I think the less-common 3C is light-years better, offering easier, more consistent response and a livelier, more focused tone. It's not quite in the same league as the excellent Debut, but still satisfying to play.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
