 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2022-10-06 04:54
Hi All,
I’ve been playing woodwinds since 1950 and the time is approaching when I will no longer need backup instruments and all the mouthpieces, ligatures, and other accessories that go with them. But there are several items that I have purchased over the years that are still among my favorites but there are new things that I now use.
Here are two lists: Vintage which I still use regularly; New stuff that gets daily use.
Vintage (still use): Aluminum LaVoz clarinet and sax reed holders, Harrison. Luyben, Gigliotti, and Bonade ligatures for all woodwinds, Manhasset music stand, Classic Selmer Soloist C* mouthpieces for bass clarinet, soprano sax, and alto sax.
Also, a Dukoff D7 tenor sax mouthpiece, Borbeck, Stowell Wells Schneider, Sumner, and Portnoy clarinet mouthpieces, LeBlanc L200 clarinet and Selmer Super 80 alto sax as backups, and K&M Bass clarinet stand
New (daily use): Yamaha Custom clarinet, alto sax, and tenor sax, Legere’ reeds for clarinet and bass clarinet, ATG reed system, various Korg metronome/tuners, Bam and Protec cases, Hercules sax and clarinet stands, Hawkins (Sinta and McAllister) alto sax mouthpieces.
These items are already gone from my arsenal: Selmer Mark VI alto and tenor sax, Buffet R13s, Selmer Model 32 bass Clarinet, various mouthpieces (Vandoren, Brilhart, misc.).
My questions for you are:
• Do you extensively use equipment that is 1980s or older and what is it? Let’s call it vintage.
• What equipment made in the last decade have you chosen over some older choices, particularly vintage?
I have found that making the decision on selling, trading, or gifting vintage items is always difficult as we usually have some interesting history together. But after that is said, there is usually some good mileage left on just about anything.
It is enjoyable telling the recipient a little about each item’s pedigree. Like, I was playing on this clarinet mouthpiece when I was backing the one and only…
Hank
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2022-10-06 06:48
I use an 1898 Conn as my daily driver.
I have lots of vintage gear similar to what you stated. (My favorites being the L200, and the Leblanc wooden bass and alto - sadly, I don't play Boehm anymore, so there they sit...but I hold on to them, "Just in case." (more like, "Just in [their] case.) Manhasset stand. B&H Albert bass clarinet. Too many favorites in "vintage" to list. I used to love my Dukoff D5 Tenor mouthpiece, but don't play it anymore. )
To answer as to what vintage gear I use daily:
1898 Conn Clarinet
Old generic ligature
Crystal Pete Fountain Mouthpiece (Pomarico/Leblanc)
Kohlert Clarinet Stand
To answer as to what new gear I use daily: Cane reeds. At least, I like to think they have been manufactured within the last 10 years or so.
Fuzzy
;^)>>>
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Author: m1964
Date: 2022-10-06 09:17
Fuzzy wrote:
"I use an 1898 Conn as my daily driver..."
How is tuning on it?
Thanks
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2022-10-06 15:52
m1964,
Challenging in the lower clarion.
Fuzzy
;^)>>>
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2022-10-07 04:45
My daily clarinet blow is a 1960's Pustophon, with a Selmer series 9 as a backup.
Played on a Clark Fobes Sanfransisco CF+. Among the instruments which I can't be persuaded to part with are a slightly tweaked B&H Imperial, a Jerome Thibouville Lamy circa early 1900's, a Louis of Chelsea circa 1930 and a Selmer in metal.
Tony F.
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2022-10-07 05:39
i have a pustophon also.probably the most underrated clarinet of all time. i use a bay california model mpc
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Author: Mojo
Date: 2022-10-07 17:24
I sold most of my aluminum reed holders when I realized I could purchase 4 plastic ones to replace them with from the proceeds.
MojoMP.com
Mojo Mouthpiece Work LLC
MojoMouthpieceWork@yahoo.com
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Author: Hunter_100
Date: 2022-10-11 18:32
I purchased a vintage Noblet eb clarinet (~1975ish). I bough it off ebay without play testing it, assuming that as long as the wood and keys were good that I could get it restored to workable condition. If money was not an option, I would have preferred to buy a new instrument though.
In my own cost-benefit analysis, I determined that buying a used instrument and paying for a refurbishment was best for me considering 1: I never played on a eb instrument before, and 2: I was not sure how long I would be playing the eb parts in our band. Forking out $5K for a new instrument did not seem like a smart move. Maybe if I keep playing eb for a few years, I will look for a replacement instrument. Most likely the replacement will be a used instrument too since the price of new instruments is really crazy high.
Post Edited (2022-10-11 18:32)
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Author: NOLA Ken
Date: 2022-10-11 20:34
Strickly a late-life returning amateur here, but I discovered early that I could buy vintage and have them restored or overhauled cheaper than buying a single new pro instrument. I guess I'm making up for lost time by experiencing a lot of different equipment on the cheaper-than-new. I've been extremely happy with the results.
My daily go-to is a late-1950s Leblanc Symphonie 3 Full Boehm beautifully restored by Vytas Krass. I am just incredibly happy with how it plays and get compliments from the Buffet players. I have a slightly older restored Symphonie 3 standard Boehm that I use for backup, sometimes with a vintage Bonade mpc refaced by Brad Behn. I've dug out my old aluminum Roy Maier Reedguards from high school and college days to help keep my Legere Reeds flat.
The others of my vintage collection that I pull out every now and then for fun: a 1960 Buffet R-13 and a 1967 Leblanc Classic II. I have some others stuck back that I rarely play and am considering gifting or selling. I too find it hard to let go of them. They play nicely and each could have its purpose if the opportunity presents itself.
As to newer instruments I could use regularly but don't, I have a Noblet Eternite (somewhere around late 1990s? and looking suspiciously more like a Leblanc than any contemporary Noblet I've seen) that I quite like, a Leblanc Pete Fountain of early-2000s vintage, and a Ridenour Lyrique Libertas that I use for cold weather and outdoors. I don't find these as satisfying as the Symphonies.
As for newer equipment that I use regularly and prefer to vintage: Backun Traditional bells and Backun Fatboy and Traditional barrels on many of my clarinets, Legere reeds for Bb and alto and bass clarinets, much newer ligatures products (Rovner, Luyben), a Vandoren M30 Lyre Profile 88 13 mouthpiece for my Symphonies (most of the time), Vandoren BD5 mpc for my alto clarinet, and a Grabner White Velvet mpc for my bass.
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Author: donald
Date: 2022-10-12 03:32
Hi there Hank,
I play/practise on a 1935 Buffet Bass clarinet (with full automatic mechanism, but only goes down to Eb so I borrow a friends Buffet low C when that is required. I've been known to have both basses on stage, and switch between them- that's a whole other story).
I find the 1935 bass has been built making tone quality the priority, and intonation not as good as a modern bass but still quite manageable.
I also have a 1963 R13 that I used as my main instrument for a month or so when I had a problem with my Festival, and no time/$$$ to get it fixed. I LOVED playing the old R13, but could only really use this for pro playing it I had several keys replaced- they are so worn there are indentations from finger action (not just plating worn off!). It's former owner bought it new when he was studying with Stubbins in Michigan, and probably played it for 4 or 5 hours a day between 1963 and 2016. It still sounds GREAT.
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Author: m1964
Date: 2022-10-12 06:07
I recently bought a pre-R13 (1953?) Buffet and fixed it.
The clarinet sounds fine and tunes well with a Moennig barrel (a little too wide 12th with the original barrel).
However, as good as it is, I still get more pleasure when I switch to my modern Buffet - an RC Prestige (which i am lucky to have).
The old Buffet is absolutely fine for playing in any level amateur orchestra/band.
It is very possible that a better player could make it work in a professional setting.
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Author: smokindok
Date: 2022-10-12 06:44
Interesting subject, Hank. The doubling gigs I typically play don't provide the kind of income that would be required to own and maintain modern professional level instruments. Fortunately, I have found wonderful vintage instruments at much more reasonable cost that, when well set up, perform quite well.
Vintage instruments far outnumber modern:
Yamaha 451 flute from the 80's
Vito/Yanagisawa soprano sax from 1977
Conn 6m alto sax from 1938
Couf Superba 1/Keilwerth tenor sax from the 70's
Weltklang baritone sax from the 80's
Noblet Artist Eb clarinet from the 70's
Noblet Artist C clarinet from the 80's
Buffet R13 A clarinet from 1969
Selmer Model 30 bass clarinet from 1974 (Though modified and extended to low C by Stephen Fox.)
Howarth S2 oboe from 1970
Howarth cor anglais from 1949
Modern instruments:
Peter Eaton International Bb clarinet
Pearl 105 piccolo
John
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2022-10-12 08:39
Hi All,
What interesting answers to my questions. It was pretty cool to see several vintage names of equipment that I also played or even owned in the past. It's like a time machine! Those older Leblanc clarinets are still great instruments.
One thing that I should raise is that having a vintage instrument means that you must have access to a good repair person. My go-to person also happens to be a great friend who has, as he has been gracefully aging like me, added some terrific young technicians to his staff. Passing on the "gift" to the youngsters is a noble thing to do.
Thanks for posting,
Hank
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Author: m1964
Date: 2022-10-13 05:45
Hank Lehrer wrote:
> Hi All,
> ... One thing that I should raise is that having a vintage
> instrument means that you must have access to a good repair
> person...
I think IF the restoration was done right, older clarinets should not need extra care comparing to newer ones.
A lot depends on how the instrument was used previously, but still a good repair tech can bring almost any instrument to a nice condition.
A lot also depends on the metal used on a particular clarinet- I found that older Selmer 10 had keys that were practically un-bendable and will easily last 2-3 generations. It would take hours of everyday practice to wear out that key work.
A nicely restored vintage instrument may need less care than modern cheaply made one (IMO)
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2022-10-13 08:16
m1964,
Agreed. However, the point I was trying to make though was that should you acquire a vintage instrument that is in need of restoration or a major repair, a good repair person is necessary. But instead, I did not write a particularly good sentence.
Over the years, I have seen several situations where an instrument part, screw, or other component was missing. It's amazing to see a skilled tech use his or her skills in dealing with that situation; fabrication is often required.
A young tech I know has become a real artist in clarinet repair. I asked her once how she got interested in the craft (she has a master's degree in clarinet performance and plays extremely well). She said "my father was a tool & die guy in the automotive industry for over 30 years. And my grandfather before him. I was always taking stuff apart and putting it back together."
Hank
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Author: m1964
Date: 2022-10-14 09:51
Hank Lehrer wrote:
>... the point I was trying to make though was
> that should you acquire a vintage instrument that is in need of
> restoration or a major repair, a good repair person is
> necessary....
>
> Hank
Oh, yes- absolutely.
A good repair person is indeed necessary for any instrument, vintage or brand new.
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Author: Hugues Fardao
Date: 2022-10-15 10:48
I don't know wh yI play my Selmer L series from 1931. Well, OK, let's be honest : I paid 350 Euros, let's face it, that could be an answer. And it is.
I do like more recent clarinets, some are great instruments. I wouldn't mind playing them, I would even say I'd love to (especially Selmer Privilège and Buffet Tradition... God I love these horns). But I really love the Selmer 10S wich is still a top clarinet, Centered Tone keywork, the Recital too : remember it's in the catalog since nearly 40 years.
BUT : my old clarinet is lightweight and very easy to blow and I like the sound, and the flexibility, it fits me so I don't need a change for the moment. We found each other.
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Author: kilo
Date: 2022-10-15 13:24
Replacing my Yamaha student bass with a Selmer 30 was definitely the right decision. My repair guy is a professional bass player and he did an excellent overhaul of the instrument. It sounds wonderful – but it still doesn't go lower than Eb unless I add a extension to reach a muffled "D". I began to realize that a low C instrument would be a worthwhile investment and ended up getting one of the first of the Royal Global Max basses – it's the "Polaris" model on a composite body. I couldn't see overhauling a Selmer or Buffet low C bass, assuming I could even find one.
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Author: m1964
Date: 2022-10-16 04:31
kilo wrote:
> Replacing my Yamaha student bass with a Selmer 30 was
> definitely the right decision. My repair guy is a professional
> bass player and he did an excellent overhaul of the instrument.
> It sounds wonderful – but it still doesn't go lower than Eb
> unless I add a extension to reach a muffled "D". I began to
> realize that a low C instrument would be a worthwhile
> investment and ended up getting one of the first of the Royal
> Global Max basses – it's the "Polaris" model on a composite
> body. I couldn't see overhauling a Selmer or Buffet low C
> bass, assuming I could even find one.
I wonder how Royal Global Polaris compares to Yamaha 622II that I do see being sold used on eBay for approximately the same money as new Royal Global.
However, there would not be that "new instrument" feel when buying used...
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Author: kilo
Date: 2022-10-16 13:18
I've never played a 622, but from discussions here, the professional Yamaha basses aren't in the same league as the modern Buffets and Selmers. The Royals share some similarities with the Buffet and Selmer keywork, but a side-by-side comparison would be necessary to see how the Polaris stacks up against the legacy basses. Ideally one would have time to really get to know the instrument rather than just a single playing experience or drawing conclusions from watching a video.
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Author: Hunter_100
Date: 2022-10-17 22:30
I'm sad to report my "vintage" silk swab has finally died and will have to replaced. I have had the same one with my Bb for the past 22 years or so. I ordered it from the woodwind brasswind catalog (when it was actually paper). I remember the description said something like "assorted colors and patterns, no choice". When I got it, I was shocked to find what they sent was bright purple silk with neon green granny smith apples all over it. It was, without exaggeration, the ugliest piece of fabric I have ever encountered. I kept it for some reason and it has since grown on me. But unfortunately, it developed a big hole that is snagging on the register tube so it will have to go.
It is curious how bummed I am about this, a swab is such a minor thing but when you've had something for so long you get attached I guess. The replacement will probably be boring black or some solid color...oh well.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2022-10-19 18:11
CLARINET
VINTAGE:
1970(ish) Buffet E&S K-series clarinet. I DID have some work done to it (custom undercutting of tone holes), and to date I haven't found a professional horn that rivals that is worth spending money on. I've found horns that sound better sure, but not worth $4k, or $3k, or even $1k better (not that any of them only cost $1k)
Rovner ligature. Not sure if I'd call it "vintage", but it's an early model Rovner Dark. Works to keep the reed on, works for me.
Blayman stand (at least the design... I think I bought the stand technically in the early 2000s)
NEWER EQUIPMENT/CHOICES
Mouthpiece. I think this might be lots of folks. And that's alright. Past 1.5 years have been on a CG mouthpiece from Backun.
Legere reeds (brand/material is CERTAINLY not vintage). I'm a HUGE fan and will sing their praises for many years to come.
Case (BAM case)
I'd LIKE to say digital sheet music, but I go back and forth depending on ease of use. But I do use both.
OTHER INSTRUMENTS I KNOW OR AM LEARNING
VINTAGE:
Conn 10M tenor sax and Conn 6M alto sax. Cheap enough for me to buy, great reputations, play what I need to play. Still old rovner designs for ligatures.
Fender Jazz Bass made in USA. Maybe one day I'll learn to start playing it.
NEWER EQUIPMENT/CHOICES
Mouthpieces. Just easier to find and test what works.
Bass amp.
Headphones for listening, and cases.
Cool thread. Glad to see you still around Hank! We've never interacted, but this forum is sort of a comfort for me. And I like seeing familiar names here. People who post often, and are passionate. Lord knows I've racked up my numbers of posts. Not all of substance to others unfortunately, but all of substance to me and who I am.
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2022-10-19 22:42
Alexi,
Indeed, we go back a good number of years on the BB. Great to see you active again. The Army band experience appears to have been exceptionally good for you.
I know you were deciding if staying 20 years was right for you. Do it and then you will have benefits and a pension someday. There will still be lots of employment available when you get out!
Glad you like the thread.
Hank
BTW The chops are still good.
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Author: Hugues Fardao
Date: 2022-10-20 09:03
@sfalexi -> you make me remember that if my clarinet is old, my Selmer Echo mouthpiece was purchased one year ago. And I'm on Légère reed too.
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