 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2022-07-31 04:17
What does the German term "hinaufziehen" mean?
Thanks,
Karl
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2022-07-31 06:11
I know. I Googled it, too. But are any of the German speakers here familiar with it in a music context?
Karl
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Author: JohnP
Date: 2022-07-31 10:45
Google "hinaufziehen Mahler" and and you will find references to the instruction in the oboe part of Mahler 3. Usually interpreted as an upward gliss or smear. Whether there’s any other use of this term in music I don’t know.
There’s a glossary of Mahler terms here which includes hinaufziehen
https://www.orchestralibrary.com/reftables/mahlersymphgloss.html#H
John
Post Edited (2022-07-31 10:48)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2022-07-31 12:21
JohnP wrote:
> Google "hinaufziehen Mahler" and and you will find references
> to the instruction in the oboe part of Mahler 3. Usually
> interpreted as an upward gliss or smear. Whether there’s any
> other use of this term in music I don’t know.
Interesting. That's the context that led me to ask the question. I've played Mahler's 3rd a couple of times and heard it both live and on recordings, and until recently had either never heard or never noticed (hard to believe) the oboist playing an actual gliss in that passage. I looked at my score when I got home (I was driving when I heard it) and sure enough, there was that instruction. It's too small to read comfortably in my study score, so I never noticed it. Unlike "Schalltrichter in die Höhe" it doesn't appear in the clarinet parts of any Mahler I've played, so I've never had to deal with it as a performer.
I wonder how you do that on an oboe? If it's as relatively easy to do as on a clarinet. Oboist's don't have Rhapsody in Blue to motivate them to learn it.
BTW, thanks for the link to that Mahler glossary. Google's "pull up" seems pretty close, once you connect it to the 3rd Symphony context, but I didn't get "hinaufziehen" when I reversed the search and tried to get Google to translate "glissando" into German from English or Italian. Sometimes Google can be context-deaf.
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2022-07-31 14:16
Isn't there one of those in the opening of the Titan before the "country dance " starts? It always sounded to me like the oboes are doing more than just a big minor sixth crescendo.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: JohnP
Date: 2022-07-31 14:24
Here’s a demonstration on a Stecher oboe of the time
https://www.fugato.com/pickett/mahler3-4.shtml
Googling Stecher oboe brings up a picture showing an instrument with no ring keys or covered finger holes presumably making it easier to get this effect.
We should get back to the clarinet now!
John
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2022-07-31 18:06
JohnP wrote:
> Here’s a demonstration on a Stecher oboe of the time
>
> https://www.fugato.com/pickett/mahler3-4.shtml
>
> Googling Stecher oboe brings up a picture showing an instrument
> with no ring keys or covered finger holes presumably making it
> easier to get this effect.
>
Thanks, again. The comments on that page about it's being difficult (in the view of some, impossible) on a modern oboe explains why I've never heard it.
> We should get back to the clarinet now!
Yep. I might take a couple of questions over to the oboe board and see what more I find out. Meanwhile, my original question is now answered, except whether or not any other German composer ever used "hinaufziehen" even in a clarinet part to ask for a gliss.
Karl
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Author: JohnP
Date: 2022-08-06 01:32
I noticed by the way that there’s an instruction in the opposite direction, "herunterziehen" in the clarinet part of Um Mitternacht in the Rückert Lieder.
John
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2022-08-06 13:30
„Ziehen“ („pull“) in a musical context in German is used for varying the pitch of one tone, e.g. by varying the embouchure to correct intonation problems in older instruments. „Herauf“ or „herunter“ would indicate the direction. Brass players in English, as far as I know, would use „lipping“.
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