 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Anonymoose
Date: 2022-05-24 10:10
How do people play the 13 series Vandoren mouthpieces in tune? They're made to tune to 440 but I see many players in Europe, who tune to 442, play B40 13's. Such as Oliver Patey of the Concetgebouw Orchestra and Alessandro Carbonare. (I'm not sure if those orchestras play above 440 though).
Penny for your thoughts?
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Author: mozartklar
Date: 2022-05-24 21:07
I use a M30Lyre 13 series and my answer is to use a shorter barrel. I've had good luck with a 65mm. Throat tones don't sag and by pulling out slightly at middle and at bell (if needed), everything rides pretty well.
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2022-05-24 21:10
All orchestras in mainland Europe play at 442 or higher. The U.K. plays at 440 and always has.
Regarding the mouthpiece possibly shorter barrel as mentioned or the mouthpiece might play a little brighter than the regular none 13 series.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2022-05-24 22:14
Absolutely agree with the shorter barrel. If you like (need) the internal tuning characteristics of the 13 Series (not just a tone issue.....affects the altissimo more) then the barrel is where to address it.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2022-05-24 22:15
My understanding, when Donald Montanaro originally collaborated in developing the Series 13s (starting with the M13), was that he was trying to create a line of Vandorens that played at "American" pitch (ostensibly 440 or 441) and was a little "darker" than the the traditional Vandorens, which aim higher than 440. One of the ways - I think the main way - was to scoop the baffle out a little to create a larger chamber. That lowered the pitch - unfortunately, especially the throat notes - and did whatever they had wanted to achieve at the time in terms of "darkness."
You can't put material back into the baffle (at least not easily with reliable results). So you either use a shorter barrel, use a VD traditional blank, which is made to play higher in the first place, or find something else from a different mouthpiece manufacturer.
Karl
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2022-05-24 23:30
Let's remember that tuning depends a lot on the individual, as illustrated by the wise words in Brymer's book. He and Roy Jowitt swapped instruments and were massively out of tune, even though normally they played well together. For me, the 13 series throw the throat notes too far flat. A short enough barrel to fix that makes me too sharp elsewhere. But I know people who get good results with those mouthpieces. So you just have to try it out.
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Author: Anonymoose
Date: 2022-05-25 12:58
Thanks for all of the responses. I ask because I have the same issue John Peacock mentioned. Having a short enough barrel that brings up the pitch of the throat notes makes other notes too sharp. Plus, I am accustomed to the resistance of 66mm barrels, it has that oomph that shorter barrels don't have.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2022-05-25 22:23
It's possible to raise the pitch of the throat notes by carefully undercutting tone holes - a job that should be done by a skilled repair person with the player's input using the mouthpiece/reed that will actually be played on the instrument. There's a limit to this - the tone can be compromised if too much undercutting is done. It shouldn't be the first choice to correct flatness in the throat notes (or anywhere else), but is an available approach if all other more reversible fixes fail.
Karl
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Author: Bob Barnhart ★2017
Date: 2022-05-26 20:26
Some years ago I bought a BD5-13 to try with my Yamaha CSGs. I found the tone to be quite dark/resonant but had to use a barrel that was 2mm shorter to even get close to A440. Over the years, I've kept it around for situations in which the temperature is so high that I have to use a low-pitched mouthpiece.
I subsequently tried a traditional BD5 to see if its higher pitch (442) would solve the intonation problems and it does. Mine actually tunes at about 440-441.
Recently I've been experiencing pitch issues in my orchestra. I wound up testing both my BD5-13 and my traditional BD5. The traditional seemed to provide the appropriate intonation, but I noticed that, although the tone was similar between the two (based on recordings), the resistance and feel were quite different. The BD5-13 felt more resistant and less flexible than the traditional version.
I have to say that for me, the traditional BD5 tuned, felt and played more to my liking. It plays well in turn with my standard (56.5mm) barrel pulled out about 1mm.
I have also compared a BD4-13 to my favorite traditional BD4. In this case, I experienced the same results, although they are more similar than my BD5s. However, I still prefer the traditional BD4 with the barrel pulled out about 1mm.
Based on these limited experiments, I do not believe that the only difference between 13-series and traditional mouthpieces is just the length of the bore. They seem to tune, feel and play too differently for that to be the case.
Bob Barnhart
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