 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2022-05-15 12:07
Hi,
I wondered if any of you had tried using something like the Facial-Flex for toning Orbicularis oris muscle?
https://www.facialflex.com/shop-now/order-facial-flex/
Thanks!
Jen
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2022-05-15 12:27
Crikey! On further searches I have wandered into a whole world of "face yoga" and women talking about how to exercise their faces so as not to get all wrinkly when they age. This is not a place I have been before!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2022-05-15 18:49
I bought one years ago, but came to the conclusion that I could have saved my money and "exercised" by just putting the clarinet mouthpiece in my mouth and tightening my lips around it as if I were playing.
I also wasn't convinced that the device exercised all of the muscles involved in forming the embouchure. That's what it felt like to me when I used it, but I wasn't curious enough about that to investigate.
B.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Liquorice
Date: 2022-05-21 00:53
I have to say that I don’t understand the Dave Fedele video at all. He demonstrates that he can produce lower notes with something closer to his high F “voicing”. But it’s also evident that the lower he goes, the thinner and weaker the notes sound. Good clarinet players are aware that one needs different tongue positions for optimal resonance in different registers, or to even produce notes in different registers. So I don’t understand why Fedele advocates the high F tongue position for the whole range of the instrument (which in any case would be technically impossible) ??
Post Edited (2022-05-21 00:56)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2022-05-21 18:45
Hi Paul,
I seem to have a huge problem with biting and I think it's because my Orbicularis oris muscle is not very strong. I have a feeling that if I can exercise it really well then the biting will not be a problem any more.
I've switched to double lip just now, which takes biting out of the equation entirely and forces me to strengthen the Orbicularis oris muscle with every minute of playing that I do. I find that really effective for sorting this out.
I just wondered if there was some good way to work the muscle while I'm doing other stuff like typing.
I did try the exercise that Michael Lowenstern recommends but it doesn't come anywhere near to getting the kind of strength that I want for double lip.
I also saw the "stop biting" video, but I didn't really get it.
I think I just need to find a way to really strengthen that muscle.
The one video that really hits the spot for me is this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vsDULB-qXo&list=RDwmcXs4-HsK0&index=14
Doing that exercise double lip is incredble for strengthening the right muscle.
It's again not an exercise that I can do while typing though as it requires me to have a clarinet in my hand.
Jen
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2022-05-21 23:41
I am coming to the conclusion that there are several different ways of getting to the same final result in terms of a really good sound (probably calls for far more discussion than bullet points). As a young student I had access to the finest players in the Mid-West of the United States; Robert Marcellus, Clark Brody, Larry Combs, John Yeh (and others). The discussion of embouchure was always approached with the idea that it needed to have attention and required significant effort (at least in understanding) to get it right.
Fast forward to my discussions with Dutch clarinetist Bas DeJong who was as perplexed as many of his colleagues why the "Yanks" were so obsessed with embouchure, when he and his peers just put their mouthpieces in their mouths and just blew (some support of course....but). The standard German set up he used was a mouthpiece of small tip opening (0.95mm) and long facing (actual 29mm.....not the gauge #29). This is paired with a VERY soft reed strength 2 1/2 (perhaps the German 2 1/2 is closer to a French #3).
I believe the Fedele/Donald Montanaro approach is closer to the traditional German method of producing a sound. There is no real embouchure effort required. Don't forget, he turned his mouthpiece upside down and got really good results. It is merely a matter of achieving the correct air pressure for the note and the dynamic of the note at hand. I started this method in just the last eight years or so upon retirement so there was time, and wiggle room for relearning.
If you already have a great playing career doing things the hard way, that's fine. But if you have the opportunity to try an easier way to produce an amazing sound, I'd suggest at least trying it out.
To answer Liquorice, the control of the note is in your midriff not your tongue. I don't change tongue shape or position......ever.
Here is an analogy to what I refer in air pressure:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVqqNigImtU
Listen starting at 4:20
.................Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Liquorice
Date: 2022-05-22 03:29
Paul wrote: "I don't change tongue shape or position......ever."
Oh really? Don't you move your tongue in articulation? What about glissandi?
But I presume you are referring to slurring around different registers. You may *believe* that you don't change tongue position, but if you are able to play 3 octaves of range on the clarinet, then you are most certainly changing your tongue position. This has been shown by every x-ray or MRI study done on professional clarinet players. Subtle changes of tongue position combined with varying degrees of air pressure are necessary to produce notes in different registers.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2022-05-22 07:08
Ok, yes, you got me.
I do actually have to admit there is a heightening of the back of the tongue in the altissimo (to compensate for the smaller pocket of air needed?). Then yes, the glissando is another exception to the rule.
What I refer to is the note to note change of shape and position of tongue some refer to. I recall a post of Tony Pay in which he spoke of being at rest (without clarinet) but mentally going through playing the Mozart Concerto and realized that he was contouring his tongue differently for almost every note. I believe that this is ANOTHER way to achieve different air speeds.
The video I referenced above is about Ben Franklin's glass armonica. Not immediately what one would associate with clarinet but the video was on my wife's FaceTime feed and we viewed it together. The point where the expert says (basically) "it's not the speed of the glass rotation, or the pressure exerted with the fingers, but the combination of both," that I said, "that's what's involved with playing the clarinet." There is a very subtle support from the embouchure upon the reed (below the level of conscious control that is) and the amount of air pressure generated in the mouth. But it is how those are used in tandem that creates and sustains a robust sound.
...............Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2022-05-22 10:27
Hi Paul,
I really like your idea of switching to a German mp, and I remember you explained it before, and gave two names of good mps and instructions about how to have them adjusted so they fit my barrel.
Quote:
"Get one around 0.95 tip opening and a facing length of 29.00mm millimeters or so (like the Wurlitzer M3+ or the N1 Viotto).
Have the [mp] tenon shortened by 1.00mm and made smaller in diameter by 1.00mm."
I did at the time phone my local shop and ask if they would do the adjustment, but they didn't believe me about the whole idea working at all, so I ended up back to square one.
I could try asking again.
Thanks!
Jennifer
Post Edited (2022-05-22 12:26)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2022-05-22 10:30
Hi Paul,
I just found this online:
https://wurlitzerklarinetten.de/produkt/mouthpiece-m3-plus/?lang=en
It says they sell it in German or French options. Does that mean I wouldn't need to have it adjusted by the shop to fit, if I bought the French one?
It costs quite a lot doesn't it?
I feel quite nervous about spending a lot of money on it because I tried a dozen mps in the shop and the Hite D was so much better for me than the others, but most of the others were Vandoren. I've never tried a wurlitzer.
The Hite D has a tip opening of .104. I just measured the part of the mp where daylight is visible between the mp and the reed and it is 15mm long. I'm not sure if that's how you measure facing length. The websites say it is a medium length.
I also just found this old thread on the subject and it seems like using a Germans mp would be a very complicated thing to get into.
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=439008&t=431610
I notice on that thread that Karl (kdk) says that there are many french style mouthpieces set up so you can "just blow". Maybe I should be thinking about one of those, and perhaps aiming for a 0.95 tip opening?
Ralph Katz on the same thread mentioned as Maxton BW mp with a .95 tip opening that he finds easy to blow, but when I look online for a Maxton with that kind of opening they are all designed for the German system. This thread suggests that Maxton is not the answer for me. http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=464861&t=464840
My local shop does sell Vandoren white master reeds at least.
I have been practising at playing longer pieces with my firm embouchure, but my face hurts and I stopped playing more than an hour ago. That seems like a strong steer that I need to fix something.
Thanks!
Jennifer
Post Edited (2022-05-22 13:48)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2022-05-22 16:20
It seems as though Brad Behn was producing a Zinner mp with a 0.95 tip opening for a while but not any more.
I suppose they would be set up for a French style clarinet if I could find one somewhere, but I don't think that would be easy.
https://www.clarinetmouthpiece.com/product-page/zinner-bb-clarinet-mouthpiece
Would it work if I asked my local shop to reface my spare Hite D to have a tip opening of 0.95? I think they could do that.
(I have the spare because an accident occurred when I was helping my son to buy me a Christmas present online and I had my eyes shut. It was kind of a pricy accident.)
Post Edited (2022-05-22 16:25)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2022-05-22 21:10
SunnyDaze wrote:
> It seems as though Brad Behn was producing a Zinner mp with a
> 0.95 tip opening for a while but not any more.
>
Clark Fobes also sells his mouthpieces in facings that include 0.96 mm tips. I'm sure there are a number of makers who sell their mouthpieces with tips in the 1.00 mm range.
> Would it work if I asked my local shop to reface my spare Hite
> D to have a tip opening of 0.95? I think they could do that.
>
It might. Some mouthpiece designs (the inside parameters - chamber, baffle height, throat size, bore size) work well with close tips and some don't. You can have nearly any facing put on a mouthpiece - but no guarantee it will work.
The other half of those Wurlitzer facings is the 29 mm curve length. You have the right idea - that's the length from the tip to the place where the curve begins above the table, where you were able to see daylight between the mouthpiece and the reed. The measurement is usually done more precisely using a flat piece of glass and a feeler gauge - usually (since Erick Brand's kits became popular back in my student days) .0015" (ca .0381 mm). Most French style mouthpieces fall in a range from 15 mm (fairly rare) to 19 mm with the most common curve length being around 16-17 mm. The longer the curve, in general, the less resistance the facing provides, so a very close tip and a very long curve need differently contoured reeds.
One production-line mouthpiece you might consider is a Gigliotti P facing. It was designed to have a .097 mm tip and a 19 mm length. I don't know if the newer ones have stayed with those measurements (I would expect they have), but it comes as close as any French mouthpiece to the close/long facing of the German examples.
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2022-05-22 21:57
Hi Karl,
Thank you very much for explaining that.
Do you think it would make a big difference to me to have a very long 28mm facing like the German mps, or would a French one with a short 17mm facing and closed 0.95 tip be enough?
It seems like a real minefield to spend £200 on a mp without trying it, and I'm very grateful indeed for your thoughts on this.
I saw that there are Wurlitzer 3+ mps with a "french option" on the website, but it didn't specify what they had changed to make it French. I could write and ask.
I see from the Clark Fobes website that there is a CF mouthpiece that is 0.96 tip opening and 17mm facing length and that mp is available in the UK for £169 ex-demo just now.
Chart of openings:
https://www.clarkwfobes.com/pages/mouthpiece-chart
CF for sale ex-demo:
https://clarinetandflute.com/products/clark-fobes-san-francisco-bb-clarinet-mouthpiece?variant=10141925146681¤cy=GBP&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=google+shopping
I did search on Gigliotti P but couldn't find anything like that.
I also wrote to Brad Behn to ask if he would think of refacing a Hite D to be 0.95 tip opening so I will wait to see if he has a minute to reply. He's quite far away but I could always post my spare Hite D and his fees to reface are the same as buying a different mp new.
Thanks so much for all of your thoughts on this. I appreciate it very much.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2022-05-22 22:14
You ask some really good questions. Firstly, there are German mouthpieces made with French facings. However, since the M3+ IS a German facing, I would assume that the "French" designation means it is adapted to fit the barrel of a French clarinet. I would double check with Wurlitzer though. They are good about responding to inquiries.
Then there is the dimension thing. The German mouthpiece facing is quite different from that of the French (as well as a lot of other factors that are different as well, which is why there are some slight pitch accommodations that are unique). But even just taking the French mouthpieces by themselves, the tip opening is only ONE part of a crucial equation. The longer the facing (on the same tip opening) the SOFTER the reed will play. The shorter the lay with the same tip opening, the harder the reed will play.
But back to your issue. You say, "I have been practising at playing longer pieces with my firm embouchure, but my face hurts and I stopped playing more than an hour ago. That seems like a strong steer that I need to fix something." This is NOT right and you need to find an approach that does not cause undue physical strain. If you don't mind me saying, I believe you'd benefit from the German mouthpiece, at least as a transition to better practices on the Boehm mouthpiece (this is what I wound up doing in the end).
Here's the bottom line. When you get your M3+ with 2 1/2 White Master Traditional reeds, your first thought will be, "Well I'm playing like a rank beginner!" At least this was my knee jerk reaction to my first few minutes on this set up. I played for a about 20 minutes and put it away. It was the next day as I reflected on the previous day that I realized that the excerpts I played had dynamics and actually sounded pretty good. Going back to the set up I realized that it was the FEEL of the thing that caused me to have an initially negative reaction. Now I know that this feeling indicated just how much unnecessary effort I had been using for forty years!
I never regretted the time (and money) spent on the foray into the German mouthpieces. For me, it was an essental step, and I could have stuck with the German mouthpieces just fine. I only wanted to prove something to myself about the Legere Euro Cut reeds (then they were called European Signature) which led me back to Boehm mouthpieces.
Whatever you decide to do, pain (discomfort) is NOT a part of playing the clarinet properly.
.............Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2022-05-22 23:17
SunnyDaze wrote:
> Do you think it would make a big difference to me to have a
> very long 28mm facing like the German mps, or would a French
> one with a short 17mm facing and closed 0.95 tip be enough?
>
I really don't know. I suspect you'd find a .95-.1.00mm/34-38mm facing easy enough blowing, or if not, that you're considerably overdoing something. I haven't gone back through this entire thread to see if you described back at the beginning what you're playing that's causing you to work so hard. I look and see if I see something useful.
> I see from the Clark Fobes website that there is a CF
> mouthpiece that is 0.96 tip opening and 17mm facing length and
> that mp is available in the UK for £169 ex-demo just now.
For me, the CWF series seems easier to play than the CF. It comes in three facings. The C (.095/16) is a little shorter than the CF. The F (1.00/17) is the same facing as the CF+ (differences are internal).
> I did search on Gigliotti P but couldn't find anything like
> that.
>
No, I don't see it now, either. They were being made by Babbitt and were available well beyond Gigliotti's death in 2001, but the main distributor, his wife, went out of business several years ago (it's a long story), and I guess production ended with the business. You could probably find them on EBay - just make sure, if you look there, to look for the "P" facing. The others were more open and shorter.
> I also wrote to Brad Behn to ask if he would think of refacing
> a Hite D to be 0.95 tip opening so I will wait to see if he has
> a minute to reply. He's quite far away but I could always post
> my spare Hite D and his fees to reface are the same as buying a
> different mp new.
>
He can do it - it's a question of whether or not he thinks it will turn out to be playable.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2022-05-22 23:30
I've quickly read through the thread. Unless I skimmed right over it, I don't know for sure what you're using that's causing your facial pain. Is it the Hite 1.04mm? What reeds are you using on it?
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2022-05-22 23:34
Hi Paul,
Thank you very much for thinking through all that, after I asked so many questions.
So I get from your answer that you think my best option is the Wurlitzer 3+ with the French option selected on the website, and the Vandoren White Master reeds, but to ask Wurlitzer first what the French option actually changes about the mp. I will put that on my list as first priority to think about. I already use a string ligature, so that part is easy.
Karl - Thanks so much for your thoughts too. I will put the Clark Fobes on my list to think about too. The problem I'm trying to solve is that the muscles in my cheeks (I presume my masseter muscles) hurt if I play single lip, and so I changed to double lip, which I'm very happy with. I can't play for long before the muscles just run out of stamina and go all floppy. I was trying to find a way to exercise them to make them stronger, but having a softer setup sounds a much nicer option.
I'll also wait to hear back from Brad Behn and see what he says.
It's really kind of you all to take the time to explain this. It's a lot to think about, so I will have a ponder.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2022-05-23 00:01
SunnyDaze wrote:
> Karl - Thanks so much for your thoughts too. I will put the
> Clark Fobes on my list to think about too. The problem I'm
> trying to solve is that the muscles in my cheeks (I presume my
> masseter muscles) hurt if I play single lip, and so I changed
> to double lip, which I'm very happy with. I can't play for long
> before the muscles just run out of stamina and go all floppy. I
> was trying to find a way to exercise them to make them
> stronger, but having a softer setup sounds a much nicer option.
Jen, it makes a big difference here to know what your current setup is. If you're trying to play on reeds that are too hard for your current mouthpiece, just lightening up on the reed strength could help. If you're using your muscles to force a really resistant reed into producing a serviceable tone, whether you're playing single or double lip, you will tire.
Check, using your current equipment to see if the reed vibrates at all without embouchure pressure. Place the mouthpiece/reed on your lower lip, close your lips **lightly** (without pressing) to prevent air from leaking out and blow open G. You should get a very diffuse, probably out-of-tune, soft G-ish sort of sound. If all you hear is breath and no tone, it isn't fundamentally an embouchure problem, it's the reed that doesn't want to vibrate easily on the mouthpiece facing. Adding pressure from the lips refines/clarifies/focusses the sound and firms the pitch, but it shouldn't be necessary simply to get vibration.
The best exercise to build embouchure strength and/or endurance - if that's indeed what is needed - is to play, but in short enough spurts that the muscles can recover in between. I suspect you've gone down some kind of rabbit hole with respect to the resistance in your setup. How long have you been experiencing this pain? You've been playing for quite a while.
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2022-05-23 10:06
Hi Karl,
Thank you for explaining about that. That does make a lot of sense right enough.
I am playing a Hite D with a 1.5 vandoren classic reed. It does produce a diffuse G sound if I blow without pressure. But even putting my mouth in that shape to surround the mp does hurt a bit.
I used to play 2.5 V12s, but something happened when I had covid during the first lockdown. After that my muscles started to hurt a lot when I played.
Pre-covid I was bashing along merrily at about distinction Grade 3 level, and able to play for 30 minutes continuously. When I was able to start playing again 9 months post-covid I really couldn't get through a grade 1 tune decently because my mouth hurt and I ran out of air.
I think the virus maybe caused damage to my muscles all over, possibly including the embouchure ones. I lost 9lbs in weight that has never come back, and it's clear from looking at me (legs mainly) that the thing that has gone is muscle.
I read up about how to regain muscle mass, and it said "pumping dead-weights causes increase in muscle mass". So I thought maybe I needed to do serious exercise on my embouchure muscles to get them back to full strength again.
I have been working hard from scratch to regain condition and I can now bash through 20 minutes of grade 5 pieces, but then my embouchure muscles really know about it, even the day after.
That's why I was asking about the Facial-Flex thing that I mentioned in the opening post.
Thanks so much for taking the time to talk to me about this stuff. I think there is expertise on this forum that I just couldn't access in-person here locally, and I'm really grateful to you for taking the time.
Best wishes,
Jen
Post Edited (2022-05-23 12:54)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2022-05-23 15:49
Your embouchure seems a little too "forward" and lateral to me. Just a thought. Have your tried thinking of bringing the corners of your mouth "back" and "down?" That opens the mask a bit and gives a rounder shape to the orifice (instead of fighting the shape of the mouthpiece). It also helps to engages the upper lip musculature as well.
.............Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2022-05-23 22:39
Hi Paul,
I really hadn't thought of that at all. Thanks for suggesting it. I'll give it a go.
Best wishes,
Jennifer
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2022-05-24 00:41
I kinda wanted to make more of a point about the musculature of the embouchure even though I was trying to avoid it.
So I believe the the most crucial muscles involved are actually in our cheeks, the buccinators. To make my point, just two words:
Dizzy Gillespie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GuujVb_ex0
He is using about the same amount of air pressure we use from mezzo forte on up, but he is not using his buccinators at all. These muscles would reign in the air pressure against one's cheeks. They are also involved when we try and suck a thick chocolate shake through a straw. I am convinced these muscles are far more critical to the embouchure than lip muscle and probably why I didn't care for Michael Lowenstern's exercise.
Alto saxophonist James Moody also seems to be a little shy using those muscles as well!
...............Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2022-05-24 04:23
Paul Aviles wrote:
> He is using about the same amount of air pressure we use from
> mezzo forte on up, but he is not using his buccinators at all.
> These muscles would reign in the air pressure against one's
> cheeks.
Paul, I don't want to argue that those buccinators (cheek muscles) don't have a role. But I'm not sure what your point is here.
Are you saying that Gillespie's embouchure was not functional or that he had poor embouchure endurance because he didn't control his cheeks?
Why does it matter that he's "using the same amount of air pressure we use from mf on up?" What would it have helped to "rein in the air pressure against one's cheeks?"
And, whatever any of this means, is it equally applicable to a reed embouchure as it is to brass technique?
I'm not saying you're wrong. I just don't understand what you've written.
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2022-05-24 09:51
Maybe Paul means that it might be the buccinators that are hurting when I play? I will try again today and see if I can pinpoint where the problem is.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: seabreeze
Date: 2022-05-24 21:32
"Strength" is a slippery term as applied to embouchure function. Tony said you don't want a dead piece of meat under the reed. But he didn't say you need a strong lip. You need a lively and nerve-responsive one. Clarinet playing is more like badminton than power lifting. Ninety-pound badminton players can easily beat 300-pound shot putters in badminton; it takes quite average strength to hit the little flying object but enormous speed adaptation and coordination (trained reflexes) just to know when to swing the racket. The clarinet is much the same. You want lips that can instantly adjust to the changing pitches as they fly by. Isometric exercises with Facial-Flex may have some therapeutic value for lips that have clinical weakness or injury but once you've restored normal strength, you're going to have to look elsewhere for further embouchure fitness.
To make your lip--nerve--and--muscle apparatus supple and able to catch those notes just right as the moving fingers fly by, you will need to practice INTERVALS.
Playing intervals on the fly is like hitting the little flying bird projectiles in badminton. Concentration on the moving notes is of the essence. You cannot practice this while typing or watching a video. Your whole mind and body has to be leveraged on the notes-lip synchrony itself. The more boring and tedious the interval succession, the better because it disciplines you to play exactly what the composer has put on the page rather than cliches that come easy--a very useful skill for any musician.
Wonkak Kim, a skilled and musically sensitive player who teaches at the University of Oregon, has a warm-up routine that shows exactly the kind of practice that will develop this suppleness, and responsiveness in the lip that you need to play moving notes accurately. Too much strength in the lips (as opposed to automatic sensitivity) will just close the reed against the mouthpiece lay and silence the tone!
Here's Wonkak illustrating the routine. Of course most players will have to start playing these as quarter notes or even half notes at a slow tempo. But both the slow tempo practice and the gradual speeding up of the tempo over time will exercise the lips exactly as they need to be exercised, not mostly for strength but for accuracy and speed, so the player can "hit" the notes just right as they come flying out. This exercise will not only train the lips to be more than just a "piece of dead meat on the reed," it will make the lips more intelligent and able to provide exactly the right amount of force at exactly the right time. The object is not to give the lips strength but to give them an active brain! (A SHOW MORE link is also provided to download the intervallic warm up for free).
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=international+clarinet+wonkak+kim+warm-up.
In the video after this, this Kim performs the suite In a Victorian Kitchen Garden.
Post Edited (2022-05-25 16:44)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2022-05-24 22:08
Yeah Karl, I kinda confused myself there. I was going for a couple of things. Most directly about embouchure, FOR ME, the buccinators are what holds the sides in and rounds out the embouchure (for any length of time). It is NOT the lip muscles in isolation that create the support. HOWEVER, I played just fine puffing out my cheeks to the extreme. I still feel that to have the control over the long term it is the cheeks that "hold us in."
The other point I was clumsily making is that we need to create a fair amount of air pressure in our oral cavity to create a resonant sound. Dizzy graphically shows us just how much air pressure in the oral cavity goes into a good wind instrument sound. There was a post from someone just starting clarinet who illustrates clearly the sound you get NOT using enough air pressure.
As for the "hurting" issue. Whatever muscle is being strained, the action causing that must be stopped because it is counterproductive. But I think that the problem is that there is too much effort (thought?) being placed on the "up and down" action (causing possible leaking issues from the corners?). Then even more effort has to placed on the sides and you wind up doing a Lowenstern exercise.
...............Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2022-05-25 10:05
Thanks for these thoughts. I'll add these into my thinking while I am practising.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2022-05-25 12:30
I have set up my spare plastic clarinet by my desk so I can do long tones several times each day. Maybe that will get me to where I want to be.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
