 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ransome Fan
Date: 2022-04-18 01:39
I did an unusual thing today on my Buffet R-13 and on my Bundy plastic camping clarinet. I put tape over the tone hole for the alternate low Eb/high Bb key, the one that is operated by the 3rd finger on the left hand. I don’t use that fingering, but when I reach for my left hand F#/C# pinky key, I frequently rock the 2nd finger on my left hand and lift the alternate Eb/Bb key a little, causing a squeak or a “no note”. I didn’t use to have the problem, but I think that my left little finger has become less agile with age, so that the reach to the little finger keys is more of a stretch than it used to be. My little fingers curl inward in my hands, so that my extension toward the pinky keys is a lot less than most folks. I really like the improvement. Since I never used the other fingering, I don’t miss it, and I can live without the squeaks much more happily.
I wonder if this is the key that Artie Shaw used to remove on his horns? I ran across this: “Artie always used a 6-ring “symphony” model with the articulated G#; you can see that in the keys in many photos, whether a Selmer or a Buffet. He showed me one he’d used: he adjusted the horn itself, slightly, removing the tiny little key & pad in the upper joint on those models, & plugging that hole, because it “got in the way”!
Mine got in the way too. However I’m 71, and I’m thinking of what becomes of my horns when I die. If I remove keys, then they may never be re-united with the horns, and someone else will be bummed out. I think that the tape idea is better. What do you think?
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Author: Chris_C ★2017
Date: 2022-04-18 02:12
I put a piece of cork under the sliver to keep it closed. If it makes me play like Artie Shaw, it must be the right thing to do...
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2022-04-18 03:12
I've had a small piece of cork pushed under the LH sliver key on my Eb clarinet for as long as I can remember. My fingers are so close together that without corking it shut those accidents were all too predictable even when I was much younger. The advantage I see is that the tape has the potential to create a minor mess if the adhesive starts to get soft and bleed around the edges.
I do use LH Eb/Bb occasionally on my soprano clarinets, but I play the Eb clarinet rarely enough that the loss of that fingering really isn't so much of a sacrifice. If I felt I really wanted it for some passage, the cork comes out easily, while removing tape would involve cleaning off the residue before I could use the key.
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2022-04-18 20:58
Funny you guys mention this. I have pretty much said for fifty years that you could take that key off the clarinet and I’d never miss it.
However
In the last year I’ve been concentrating on being VERY conscious of the “names of the notes” as I go along and funny enough I use more different fingerings for the ease within a passage as well as just for fun. Going through Kroepsch Book Four, I use that key quite a bit more!
………….Paul Aviles
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Author: Ransome Fan
Date: 2022-04-19 01:10
Hey Thanks! I really like the cork idea. I was concerned about the adhesive too. I’ll try the cork.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2022-04-20 00:06
Using a cork wedge under the touchpiece will only work for a while, but it can easily be knocked out or drop out as cork compresses easily.
Much better is to remove the cross Eb/Bb key and use a cork pad or cut a cork plug of around 6.5mm diameter to completely plug up the Eb/Bb tonehole (it only needs to be a push fit with no adhesive, just like pushing a wine cork back into the bottle) and push it in so it's sat around 1mm below the tonehole rim.
Then when the key is refitted, it won't matter if you catch it by accident - the tonehole is completely plugged up and nothing can dislodge it unless you remove the key and push it into the bore should you want to revert it back to normal, plus the pad won't be compressed which can cause it to leak or split.
I've plugged up that tonehole on all my clarinets in this manner as I never use that key and even removed the key and pillars from my Buffet Prestige bass clarinet and basset horn as the touchpiece is annoying.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: r small
Date: 2022-04-20 00:30
I have my tech close off that sliver key with a wedge of cork. It's been there for several years now and has never fallen out. And if I ever find a use for that key (after playing clarinet for more than forty years) the cork can be removed in a couple of seconds.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2022-04-20 00:43
I bet the pad is squashed beyond all recognition and it'll leak as soon as you remove the cork wedge. No good will come from wedging keys closed for prolonged periods of time and expecting them to be absolutely fine afterwards.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2022-04-20 08:28
Marcellus told a story about using the first finger F# which was his "go-to." At a concert his colleague at the time convinced him that the side F# would be so much easier. Marcellus tried it in performance only to flub the note and never used the side key again.
You can also VERY easily slide your right index finger DOWN from the F# to the D#.....very clean.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2022-04-20 09:09
>> we'd find ourselves faced with this note pattern. <<
This doesn't happen very often, but when it does, at least 99% of the time it's possible to use the regular fingering (left hand first finger), or moving from the trill F# to the regular Eb fingering.
Even the most tricky situation e.g. moving back and forth between a F-Gb trill to a Eb-F trill, is probably possible without the banana key.
Post Edited (2022-04-22 07:33)
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Author: JTJC
Date: 2022-04-20 16:35
I use the key on chromatic runs. It requires less coordination across hands. Using the slivers you keep the movement on one hand for the adjacent notes.
If you remove the key and plug the hole isn’t there a danger you can damage the exterior of the tone-hole (the pad seat). If you then want to put the key back on, or sell the instrument, to make the key available again, you’ve got a problem? Leaving the key on and wedging it avoids that problem, even if it’s potentially at the expense of a new pad.
I wouldn’t buy a used instrument without the sliver(s).
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2022-04-20 18:00
"If you remove the key and plug the hole isn’t there a danger you can damage the exterior of the tone-hole (the pad seat). If you then want to put the key back on, or sell the instrument, to make the key available again, you’ve got a problem? Leaving the key on and wedging it avoids that problem, even if it’s potentially at the expense of a new pad."
There's no danger of damaging anything if you know what you're doing. Use a wooden or plastic rod to push the cork pad into the tonehole if you're worried about damaging anything, then replace the key and the tonehole crown is protected by the key as it would normally be.
You're overthinking a scenario that isn't likely to happen unless you decide to turn it into a problem.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2022-04-20 18:19
Attachment: pluggedtonehole.png (7k)
See attached cross section diagram of what's going on when the tonehole is plugged with a cork pad.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2022-04-22 04:04
The little plastic cap on the end of a cheap ball-point pen is a perfect fit in that tone hole and fits under the pad cup.
Tony F.
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Author: JTJC
Date: 2022-04-22 12:58
ChrisP. My suggestion was that if the sliver key is left off the tonehole lip could be damaged. This might affect pad seating in the key was they wanted again. Most clarinet seem to have marks/small dents where they’ve been knocked at some point. That could happen where there’s an unprotected tonehole lip. I don’t see my suggestion as over-thinking, rather it’s just one other consideration when trying to decide what to do if the sliver bothers you.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2022-04-22 14:47
>> My suggestion was that if the sliver key is left off the tonehole lip could be damaged. <<
What about all the open keys?
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Author: JTJC
Date: 2022-04-22 15:33
Are they as delicate as the edge that seats a pad?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2022-04-22 20:35
JJRC - "My suggestion was that if the sliver key is left off the tonehole lip could be damaged. This might affect pad seating in the key was they wanted again. Most clarinet seem to have marks/small dents where they’ve been knocked at some point. That could happen where there’s an unprotected tonehole lip. I don’t see my suggestion as over-thinking, rather it’s just one other consideration when trying to decide what to do if the sliver bothers you."
Simple solution - just put the key back on as I've already stated. That's not too difficult to comprehend nor achieve.
If you do prefer to leave the key off for whatever reason, then you can always fit another cork pad that sits above the level of the tonehole crown and that will protect it. I've done that on my bass and basset horn as well as removed the pillars and plugged the pillar holes with threaded plugs made from sawn-off pillars.
Have you ever looked closely at the tonehole crowns on most brand new wooden clarinets? They're hardly perfect and yet they still passed quality control.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2022-04-22 21:38
>> Are they as delicate as the edge that seats a pad? <<
Not "as"... they are exactly the same.
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Author: LFabian
Date: 2022-04-23 11:23
If the hole is plugged, there will still be debris and moisture going to the edges made by the plug. The whole mechanism comes off to dry or clean it. Even the plug has to be replaced. Too mugwort for so little. I’d leave it alone.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2022-04-23 16:52
LFabian wrote:
> If the hole is plugged, there will still be debris and moisture
> going to the edges made by the plug. The whole mechanism comes
> off to dry or clean it. Even the plug has to be replaced. Too
> mugwort for so little. I’d leave it alone.
You're completely wrong there. And even if there was, it'll only be as much as would be getting into any other tonehole and they'd all normally be cleaned when the keywork has been removed during a routine service, so it's hardly an issue at all. In fact, it would be one less tonehole to clean if it's plugged right to where it meets the bore if you're pushing more than one cork pad into the tonehole.
Just remove the key, plug up the tonehole, replace the key and then get on with the rest of your life. It's that simple.
If anyone else wants to chime in with absolutely no experience in this, then please don't bother with your half-arsed scenraios.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2022-04-23 17:10)
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Author: allencole
Date: 2022-05-09 20:05
I've really enjoyed reading this thread about a fingering that I rarely use except to turn a page while playing an Eb or Bb. Have generally told students that if I owned all the world's clarinets, I would take off that key and fill the hole with plastic wood. Have also been intrigued that fingering codes in Rubank Elementary still don't differentiate between side-key and sliver Bb/Eb after nearly 90 years in print.
Am also astounded that many band directors (who were actually clarinet majors) insist that this fingering be in the repertoire of middle schoolers--and similar for the side-key F# mentioned earlier. An F# scale in thirds using one of those fingerings will likely force you into another, but it seems to me an unnecessary source of complication and INDECISION for kids to don't practice enough.
Glad to know it's not just me!
Allen
Allen Cole
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The Clarinet Pages
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![[F4]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/f4.gif)
![[F#4]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/gb4.gif)
![[D#4]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/eb4.gif)
