 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: kerryklari
Date: 2022-02-20 15:34
I am reading Oskar Kroll's "The Clarinet". In the Technical Development chapter (p41) it says "Since 1941 the firm of F. A. Uebel has been making clarinets with a new mechanism for the production of a correctly-tuned forked f'". It goes on to describe and illustrate the mechanism, which consists of a smaller hole for the index finger to flatten the f and some keywork modifications to deal with the side effects of this.
The book is rather old now. It was written in 1944 though not published till 1965 (in German - 1968 in English), at which point the text was "revised and enlarged". Some of the technical developments covered are described as unsuccessful, or likely to be so, though there is no way of knowing whether those judgements were made by the author or the person doing the revisions. There is no comment about the Uebel mechanism, it's simply presented as a good idea.
I have an Adler that dates from the early 1960s, so it predates the publication of the book. It has most of the mechanism illustrated in the book, but not the smaller hole, and it does not play forked f' in tune. Does anyone know anything about this? Are there still German system clarinets out there that do play forked f' in tune, or was it another development that was ultimately unsuccessful?
The clarinet fingering chart on woodwind.org says the forked f' fingering works on Austrian clarinets, but I presume that is achieved by changes in the bore rather than to the mechanism?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2022-02-20 17:33
Is that the top line (treble clef) F?
![[F5]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/f5.gif)
The majority of Oehler and German systems have a forked Bb/F vent to compensate for the closure of RH3, just as is seen on most oboes.
It's opened/closed by RH2 and is a small vent key on the side of the lower joint which is also closed by the Ab/Eb key. On Oehler systems, it's operated by the fingerplate for RH2 along with the other side vent key for Bb/F.
The Ab/Eb key also closes the small vent pad cup soldered to the RH1 ring key to bring altisssimo E down to pitch.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: kerryklari
Date: 2022-02-20 18:28
Thanks for the information, but I meant bottom space F - sorry, should have been clearer about that. I believe there is an oxo|ooo fingering that works on some Oehler/German clarinets: on most it's sharp, though the corresponding C a twelfth higher is generally ok. According to woodwind.org's fingering chart oxo|ooo does work on Austrian clarinets. According to the Kroll book, the Uebel mechanism makes it work on their standard clarinets, but I presume they have since dropped it.
I've been mostly playing recorder for the last few years and pretty much all makers provide fingering charts for their instruments, so I've got used to that. I have not seen any clarinet makers doing the same, so it's hard to find out about these slightly unusual fingerings.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2022-02-20 23:31
I equate that "F" fingering (2nd finger of left hand) of the Oehler to the first line "Eb" fingering issue on Boehm. You can use the 1 and 1 fingering (the reason for the Boehm's bridge mechanism in the first place) for the high "Bb" (first line above the staff), BUT if you tried that on the first line "Eb" it is horribly out of tune. I believe the same acoustical properties are at play here. Oddly there is a Buffet fingering chart that they print in a poster size suitable for a studio wall that shows the 1 and 1 as a fingering for first line "Eb." I believe all those posters should be taken off their respective studio walls and burned. Just some friendly advice.
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2022-02-21 00:39
It's a shame that some useful upper register fingerings on Albert/simple, German and Oehler systems don't work for the equivalent lower register notes. Forked Bb (xox|ooo) is also a good note, only it's far too sharp to be of any use for a lower register Eb, so the keyed fingerings are best used for both tuning and clarity of tone.
Only on Boehm systems fitted with the LH forked Eb/Bb mechanism (the ring key for LH3) are both the Eb and Bb in tune.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: davidjsc
Date: 2022-02-21 08:54
From reading Baines' "Woodwind Instruments and their History", this Uebel system sounds more like something taken/stolen from the Clinton system.
Baines mentions that the Clinton system had a forked-F venting mechanism which was one of the main differences between the Albert/Simple system and the Clinton system.
No mention under the Albert/Simple write-up about forked-F mechanisms of the sort, apart from the alterate F key below the fifth finger similar to found on an oboe.
There was also a side key adapted from the oboe to make C/Bb and F/Eb with a single side key.
So... maybe Uebel was copying what was used on the Clinton system clarinets without calling it a Clinton system clarinet?
DSC
~~ Alto Clarinet; Bass Clarinet; B-flat and C Boehm Clarinets; Albert C Clarinet; Oboe ~~
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Author: davidjsc
Date: 2022-02-21 09:01
And reading further a few pages along in Baines' "Woodwind Instruments and their History", it mentions under the Oehler section how manufacturers such as Schmidt, Uebel, Mollenhauser, and Koktan are all lumped under the Oehler system but all had system variations on the location of the forked-F vent.
DSC
~~ Alto Clarinet; Bass Clarinet; B-flat and C Boehm Clarinets; Albert C Clarinet; Oboe ~~
Post Edited (2022-02-21 09:02)
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Author: kehammel
Date: 2022-03-04 04:47
This regards Chris P's point about the forked F/B flat correction key (not kerryklari's original question, which was about the oxo ooo fingering for middle space F)
Chris said:
"The majority of Oehler and German systems have a forked Bb/F vent to compensate for the closure of RH3, just as is seen on most oboes.
It's opened/closed by RH2 and is a small vent key on the side of the lower joint which is also closed by the Ab/Eb key."
Using my Albert system clarinet (which lacks this correction), I compared the forked top line F, xxx xox, with the same note played using the dedicated F/B flat key, xxx xx(+key)o. I also compared the corresponding chalumeau B flats. There is a difference in tone quality, but my strobe tuner picks up very little change in pitch.
I know Chris P has previously mentioned that German system clarinets are cylindrical for most of their bore, whereas the Albert bore starts to widen higher up on the bottom joint. Is this difference in bores responsible for how the F/B flat tunes, with Alberts not needing the corrrection? Or do they in fact need it and I'm just failing to detect a difference?
Post Edited (2022-03-04 06:13)
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