 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: m1964
Date: 2022-01-30 08:23
Also excellent performances by "classical" clarinet players:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhm3UqRJFBc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkXz1zA4jGE
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2022-01-30 09:39
Great playing. There are so many ways to play this. I've done it a dozen times, each a bit different (some on youtube). He uses some very interesting fingerings on some of the high notes. Enjoyed the sax & tpt. solos as well-haven't heard those added before.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
Post Edited (2022-01-30 09:39)
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Author: JTJC
Date: 2022-01-30 15:52
I see what you mean seabreeze, but I don’t think those qualities are the essentials in this piece. It’s not an approach I find suited to it, bit too ‘classical’ and tame. Cohen might have been better taking a lead from the sax and trumpet soloists in the band. Also, far more fluffs than I would have expected from a player of his standing.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2022-01-30 16:12
I really like that. I wish they still had dance parties for teenages with that kind of live music.
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2022-01-31 00:27
Being out of the loop so to speak, I'm not familiar with his classical playing. I was wondering if they were fluffs or on purpose. But, I only play "at" jazz, so my comments to be taken lightly...
Unrelated, but there is aa recording of retired Drucker playing a fairly simple solo with the Allentown Band somewhere (youtube) where he makes an obvious squeak. Everybody's human.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
Post Edited (2022-01-31 02:38)
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Author: John G.
Date: 2022-02-01 10:46
Yikes. As much as classical clarinetists always say that "jazzers should stick to playing jazz", I'll say classical clarinetists should stick to playing classical. Especially after hearing Cohen murder that thing.
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2022-02-02 02:38
Nothing got murdered in that performance. Cohen's interpretation works well, and he did a good job of presenting it.
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2022-02-02 05:11
At one of the first formal jazz concerts I attended--I must have been in 5th grade-- two bands were featured. The first was a famous trumpet player's and the second an equally famous clarinet player's. The trumpeter played loud and furious and the clarinet that followed was more demure and introverted. So a lady in the seat next to me assured her friends that she was disappointed in the clarinetist because "he wasn't really playing jazz; it just wasn't loud enough." Her notion that without a certain easily specified quality the jazz--like a desert mirage--evaporates into the sunlight--I have since learned is shared by many. When Artie Shaw changed clarinet from big bore Selmer to smaller bore Buffet and nestled into a more subdued style to match Hank Jones's piano there were many who lamented that the jazz element had flown from his style. Ed Hall formed his own chamber jazz group that included a celeste instead of a piano, eliciting similar complaints. Play too sweetly or too sadly but without the usual props of smears, grunts, and growls; turn plaintive and introspective; refuse to support the props and cliches of a Roaring 20s poster; eschew finger popping hipness, and some will say you have sinned unforgivably against the jazz idiom. Why is "freedom" defined as the right to be wilder, more animal like and bold, but never the right to enjoy a quiet reconsideration of the material of art and select the less brazen, even the less sexy, if that's what you like? It's easy to "ape" the mannerisms of Shaw in a performance; much harder to weigh and measure and explore each motive and
development for deeper meanings hidden within, below the surface. Cohen opens up new ways of playing each section, revealing subterranean beauties that have not been heard before in performances of the concerto. He chooses subtle delights rather than familiar flights. A free exercise of creativity. Don't "let it all hang out"; keep some of it covered, so the other voices within can be heard. Cohen lets us hear those other voices. Cohen has always been an original stylist. His recording of the Debussy Rhapsody with Cleveland incorporates the most "sans sonorite" sound imaginable; he enters the soundscape world of nature almost to become a wave or a cool drop of moisture floating in the atmosphere. I would expect nothing less of him. This is freedom; this is creativity. Anybody can just "jam it up."
Post Edited (2022-02-02 07:30)
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2022-02-02 06:33
When I first played the Shaw (1981) it was my first attempt at playing jazz of any kind. Still have the cassette tape. I played it very straight and missed not a note and glissed well from G to G and the end to the high C. Over the years I developed a few jazz techniques and went fairly far afield with my interpretations, including at times even a bit of improv. But when I listen to that first tape, I don't think it's any less a viable way to play it. Just different. There are many "correct" ways to play it, thus two opposite opinions right here.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
Post Edited (2022-02-02 06:36)
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Author: John G.
Date: 2022-02-02 11:32
There's a huge difference between "other voices" and/or interpretations and simply not playing something the BASIC way it should be or is intended to be played.
Just because something is titled "Concerto" doesn't mean it's a classical piece that is meant to be played in a classical way. Shaw's Concerto for Clarinet isn't meant to be played in a classical vein and playing it in that way is a disservice to not only the composition itself, but the big band/jazz genre.
Now Mr. Cohen probably is a fine classical clarinetist. I don't know as I've never heard him before and I'm not disparaging him as a clarinetist. He most likely is a FAR better classical clarinetist than I'll ever be or aspire to be.
I myself am a jazz saxophonist and clarinetist. I'll say right now that I wouldn't dare butcher the Mozart. I wouldn't give a lame attempt at "giving it another voice" or completely erroneous interpretation.
There are many classical clarinetists who cringe when they hear the classical recordings that Artie Shaw made. I'll agree the argument could be made that when Artie recorded classical works and used vibrato, etc. that he was simply (again, to beat a dead horse) "giving it another voice" but there's a huge difference between interpretation and failing to execute lines and playing it in a completely inaccurate way. The fact remains that he failed miserably at this attempt. Comparing a McDonald's burger to a "gourmet" burger would be pretty far fetched but I guess since they both use a bun, they're the same thing.
Supersize that, please.
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Author: JTJC
Date: 2022-02-02 13:52
Have to agree with John G. While we can all appreciate a variety of interpretations of a piece, there surely has to be a limit to how far you can go before a style line has been overstepped, perhaps moreso when there’s a score available. That point will vary for each of us. If you wanted to listen to the Mozart Concerto, how many who love the piece would put on the version by Paquito D’Rivera (on a YouTube)?
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Author: hans
Date: 2022-02-03 08:08
I agree with John G. too, and I have come across this issue before, when the local Philharmonic tried to play a “Swing” event - that didn’t.
Maybe that's why the Conductor part for Shaw's Concerto advises listening to the Shaw recording before attempting to play the chart, at the top of its first page. The Shaw Concerto has also been known by an alternate name, “Hot Concerto”, which should give a clue about how it should be played. I had the strong impression that Mr. Cohen had not listened to the recording and/or had underestimated the need for rehearsal.
Mr. Cohen may be a competent classical musician but he was evidently out of his element in attempting a piece by one of the world’s best jazz clarinet players.
At 7 minutes Mr. Cohen makes several obvious errors and what I heard at 7:05 at this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkTYAtjnWOM
did not resemble the gliss in Artie’s recording at 8:10 at this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1AFkcYoHP0 .
I do not agree that "Anybody can just 'jam it up' ".
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Author: tyleman
Date: 2022-02-07 13:56
I listened to two minutes of the video and stopped it. I can listen to Shaw's and enjoy that.
It's a good illustration of the difference between the approach to playing jazz on the clarinet versus classical. They are fish and fowl, and much of the difference is vibrato, which is one of the things that gives warmth to jazz clarinet playing. I can't play without vibrato and there are plenty of classical clarinets out there who are a million times better technically than I'll ever be. But can they play the blues with feeling? Shaw's training was playing jazz, an idiom which he understood completely. His "Clarinet Concerto" is not a "classical" piece. It's an extended jazz piece. Much of the feeling of the original is lost in trying to "recreate" it.
For those who may not have listened to the original, please do! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAvZAw9Ckr4
And I very definitely disagree with the statement that "anybody can 'jam it up'."
Post Edited (2022-02-07 14:02)
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2022-02-08 00:01
A little off topic, but I feel there are various kinds of vibrato used on jazz clarinet. Some are a bit overdone. As a classical player who "plays at" jazz, I feel vibrato must me done tastefully, with a certain amount of reserve if you will. And should not be used constantly. Just My opinion. For classical playing I say never... just because. Don't want any vibrato in the Mozart Concerto, or Nielsen, Debussy for that matter.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
Post Edited (2022-02-08 00:02)
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2022-02-08 01:15
Shaw was one of the greatest jazz clarinetists. He played his concerto his way with his set of sounds and feelings. His performance is a classic and no other player will ever do it Shaw's way as well as Shaw did. So why not let other performers do it their way? Attempts to mimic Shaw can easily lead to a compendium of jazz mannerisms and cliches--exaggerated wow-wows, glisses, and smears that call attention to themselves rather than advance the melodic lines of the piece. It is much easier for most clarinetists to "jam" the piece this way rather than play it in the cooler, understated, lyrical, thoughtful, restrained and considered way Cohen does. He does not play the bluesy or other sections of the concerto without feeling; he plays them with different feelings than one would expect from previous performances by Shaw and legions of his imitators. Some this difference may be the result of years of classical music training but surely some come from Cohen's own personality and nature. When Astrud Gilberto sings in that sweet bossa-nova mode, you don't expect to hear the same feelings and sounds you get from Ma Rainey belting out the blues. Both styles are beautiful and expressive of human feelings.
Let's do a thought experiment. Paul Desmond (like Gerry Mulligan) started on clarinet. Let's suppose that in their stylistic prime they decided to woodshed their old instrument and play the Shaw Concerto. Suppose that they had heard the Shaw recording 10,000 times and could hum it-glissandi, wow-wows, smears, vibrato, and all--in their sleep. Would they play it more like Shaw or more like Cohen? Would they attempt to recreate Shaw's feelings in the music or instead insert their own? (Of course, in fact Mulligan would not play it like Shaw or Cohen, and neither would Desmond. They would both play it their way expressive of their own personality, habitus, and nature.) Do you suppose
their interpretation would sound much like most of the Shaw imitators' versions? If Desmond's and Mulligan's versions were greatly at variance from Shaw's, would anyone seriously want to tell them that they didn't know what jazz is and they had violated some musical law by being true to their own selves?
In American poetry, three of the greatest are Walt Whitman, Emily Dickinson, and Wallace Stevens. Yet their styles and the feelings they express and evoke could not be more different. Viva la difference! The world is larger than any one artist. Even larger than Artie Shaw. I'd like to hear the Swingle Singers sing the Shaw Concerto.
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The Clarinet Pages
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