 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: kehammel
Date: 2021-12-13 21:41
I have some LP Albert system clarinets that I like to play for folk music. Being from the 1920s, they should presumably be at A440. However, using a fairly open setup, which is what I like, I tend to be flat unless I use a shorter barrel. Typical would be a Fobes 4L mouthpiece and a Pilgerstorfer 3.0 reed.
Being mainly a bassoonist, I knew that my embouchure (double lip) and voicing were probably not optimal. I got a lot of useful tips from this forum, and incorporated them into my practicing (high tongue, pucker to support the reed from the sides, don't bite upwards). I then took an online clarinet lesson from a good teacher who's an occasional contributor to this forum. She said she was hearing "a relatively developed sound" and recommended even more support from the sides. So I've been working on that.
I'm still about 20 cents flat on some notes using the above setup, the lower clarion being most difficult. I then thought to try a mouthpiece more typical of the time those clarinets were made. I got a Vandoren 2RV in good condition, and voila, the pitch problems were mostly alleviated. I can't love this mouthpiece, though; it's just so closed. Also, I note that a more open mouthpiece gives me more room to lip notes up or down, which is useful given the tuning problems of these old cylindrical clarinets.
As a bassoonist, it seems logical to me that a more open reed (= tip aperture on clarinet mouthpiece), a longer reed (= facing length) or a larger reed internal volume (= deeper mouthpiece baffle, maybe?) would all tend to lower the pitch. How do players who really know what they're doing (not me, obviously!) manage more open setups?
Ken
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2021-12-13 22:47
The Vandoren 2RV with a medium short facing and a medium tip opening of 1.06 mm is not a very close opening. For reference, Harold Wright (Boston Symphony) played on about a 1.01 mm tip opening, Gigliotti's (Philadelphia Symphony) was about the same, Stanley Drucker's (New York Philharmonic) was about 1.03 mm according to the student who wrote his biography. Clark Fobes (San Franciso) personal facing is 0.96 mm, which really is close. In the last decade, symphony clarinetists have turned to more open facings like the Vandoren B40 lyre and the Vandoren BD5 and BD4.
The 5RV facing is close enough so that it can be played up to pitch with little jaw or lip pressure. This is even more true for closer facings like those used by Wright, Drucker, Gigliotti, and Fobes. The more open 4L Fobes will probably require more lip and jaw pressure to be played (on the same reed) up to pitch. This is not a hard and fast fact because changing the resistance curve (over the entire length of the facing) can compensate for this. Changing the cut and strength of the reed is another contributing factor.
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Author: kehammel
Date: 2021-12-14 00:17
Thanks, Seabreeze!
Looks like I need to get more used to the 2RV.
K
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2021-12-14 00:49
You could also eventually try one of Clark Fobes' closer facings such as the 1L or the CF+. His inexpensive acrylic Debut mouthpiece (open about 1.05 mm?) is another possibility. Try M15 Vandoren "traditional" model as well. (Don't get the "series 13" Vandorens because these have an internal scoop that flattens the pitch). These are all super easy to play and more flexible than the 2RV (5RV) Vandoren, which tends towards a tight, slightly edgy sound. The old Selmer HS and HS* might work well too.
Post Edited (2021-12-14 01:29)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2021-12-14 01:17
The volume of the mouthpiece tonechamber has a profound effect on the overall pitch.
I can't remember which way round it is, but I think a mouthpiece with a large internal volume results in a flat playing one. There might be some info if you search Vandoren 13 Series as many years back I bought an M15 and that was flat as anything compared to a regular series Vandoren mouthpiece.
Rather than using a shorter barrel which i didn't have, I solved that by shortening the mouthpiece by around 2mm by recommendation from Jon Steward as that was better than shortening the barrel of older Selmers where finding replacement barrels that haven't been altered is becoming increasingly rare.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2021-12-14 01:34
Chris,
You're right about the internal volume. Larger usually means flatter (unless it's larger and shorter at the same time). So avoid "series 13" mouthpieces and get the "traditional" model (for example M15 traditional) instead. Vandoren series 13 mouthpieces have a scoop in the baffle (to make the sound mellower) that increases internal volume and flattens the pitch. Unfortunately the M13 and M13 lyre do not come in the "traditional" higher pitched versions but the M15 comes in both versions.
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Author: kehammel
Date: 2021-12-14 03:46
Great comments, both of you, thanks. I was thinking of trying a Fobes CF+ and may do that.
K
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