Advertising and Web Hosting on Woodwind.Org!

Woodwind.OrgThe Clarinet BBoardThe C4 standard

 
  BBoard Equipment Study Resources Music General    
 
 New Topic  |  Go to Top  |  Go to Topic  |  Search  |  Help/Rules  |  Smileys/Notes  |  Log In   Newer Topic  |  Older Topic 
 Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: Hugues Fardao 
Date:   2021-10-14 21:55

OK, Selmer just launch his new clarinet today, with a right thumb correction key for lower notes :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGz4oUnzdmM



Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: Robert N. 
Date:   2021-10-15 02:57

This looks very interesting. Thanks for letting us know!

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2021-10-15 05:38

About 2 minutes into this highly produced video I started thinking this thing will run about $10,000 US dollars. By the time I got to the end of this massive add I started thinking we are talkin' perhaps $12,000.



Anyone know?



Also, the low E correction cup SHOULD be about the size of the other large four pads on the lower joint and located on the bell. Three cheers for Selmer's effort...........just no cigar.



I can only hope it plays as well as the first iteration of the Privilege which I loved ......... and then they changed it.





................Paul Aviles



Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: ruben 
Date:   2021-10-15 12:57

Paul: Here in France, it's going for about 15 per cent more than the Privilége. The cost of African blackwood has shot up by 30 per cent in the last couple of years and clarinet prices reflect this.

rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com


Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2021-10-15 15:36

The Muse in Bb with standard keywork (N.1B 18 keys, 6 rings) retails at €5490.00.

Yes the low E vent SHOULD be on the bell and a full-size tonehole as seen on Oehler systems, only they've done what Yamaha and others have done by simplifying things and fitting a smaller vent on the lower joint to do a similar thing, only this compromise can create more hiss.

Yamaha fitted a W shaped baffle in the low E vent to reduce the hiss on their Boehm system clarinets fitted with the low E/F correction key. The low E vent on the Muse has a tall bush fitted which may help improve the quality of the vented low E, just as fitting a bush to the C#/G# tonehole can improve the quality of the note issuing from that compromised tonehole.

Chris.

Post Edited (2021-10-15 16:35)

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2021-10-15 20:06

Since the Privileges I have seen here in the States were around $8000.00, I'l assume from the above that we're talking around $9,200.00, which is not as much as I would have thought.


Seriously though, there are almost NO dealers in the States that deal in Selmer anymore. If you check the "Find a Dealer" on the Selmer website there are a ton in Canada and only one in Michigan representing the entirety of the US. What's up with that?







..................Paul Aviles



Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2021-10-15 20:12

€5490.00 is $6364.15 going by today's exchange rate which is nowhere near $9200.00.

Where have you got that figure from?

Chris.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2021-10-15 20:28

Here's Selmer's current UK prices in US$ including VAT (@ 20%):

Prologue Bb - $1970.66
Prologue Bb with LH Ab/Eb lever - $2160.31
Presence Bb - $3410.86
Presence A - $4120.97
Presence Bb with LH Ab/Eb lever - $3658.97
Presence A with LH Ab/Eb lever - $4370.51
Privilege Bb - $5482.76
Privilege A - $6423.88
Signature Bb - $5951.89
Signature A - $6875.90
Recital Bb - $5725.17
Recital A - $6709.06

The Muse slots in between the Privilege and Signature in terms of price.

https://howarthlondon.com/instruments.aspx?family=810&brand=9

Chris.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: farabout 
Date:   2021-10-15 20:32

Paul Aviles wrote:


> Seriously though, there are almost NO dealers in the States
> that deal in Selmer anymore. If you check the "Find a Dealer"
> on the Selmer website there are a ton in Canada and only one in
> Michigan representing the entirety of the US. What's up with
> that?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ..................Paul Aviles
>

https://www.kesslerandsons.com/

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2021-10-15 22:05

The suggestion that the Muse is 15% more expensive than the Privilege is where I got my number. You can still see $8000 price tags on Privilige clarinets being sold here. So maybe instead of a weekend in Las Vegas, it would be cheaper to take few weeks to tour Europe.......



IF



the Muse is worthwhile.





................Paul Aviles



Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2021-10-15 22:10

Thanks for the reminder about Kessler. They don't list the Muse yet. Their price on the Privilege is $6490. There Signature price is $6510 (odd and not much of a "carve out" left).


If the Muse winds up 15% more than the Privilege at Kessler, then that would be $7464.




We'll see.






...................Paul Aviles



Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2021-10-15 22:13

Why is there such a massive mark-up on French instruments being sold in the US?

I thought the UK was rip-off city.

Chris.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: farabout 
Date:   2021-10-15 22:40

Paul Aviles wrote:

> Thanks for the reminder about Kessler. They don't list the
> Muse yet. Their price on the Privilege is $6490. There
> Signature price is $6510 (odd and not much of a "carve out"
> left).
>
>
> If the Muse winds up 15% more than the Privilege at Kessler,
> then that would be $7464.
>
>
>
>
> We'll see.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ...................Paul Aviles
>

Which is still a whopping 38% below your initial outrageous estimate of $12k list.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: farabout 
Date:   2021-10-15 23:05

How resilient/resistant is their Evolution(ary) integrated resin interior lining to the recurring thermal, mechanical & other cha(lle)nges?

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: farabout 
Date:   2021-10-15 23:37

Paul Aviles wrote:

> Also, the low E correction cup SHOULD be about the size of the
> other large four pads on the lower joint and located on the
> bell. Three cheers for Selmer's effort...........just no
>

Why didn't they simply drill a (keyless) hole in a bell, likewise Ridenour's C-clarinet?

Off topic, I am surprised that no one has thus far commented on the apparently fused upper+lower joint (often misnamed as a "single piece" horn; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nTZFBnMtzo).

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2021-10-16 07:49

Not sure how Ridenour makes that work. The middle line B should be wildly sharp.


Of course speaking of Eb clarinets.....there is that Clark Fobes extension that has gotten some positive reviews which helps with resonance.






.............Paul Aviles



Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: farabout 
Date:   2021-10-16 08:01

Paul Aviles wrote:

> Not sure how Ridenour makes that work. The middle line B
> should be wildly sharp.
>

It's not (on my Lyrique C)

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2021-10-16 19:38

I'll just ask this question again, maybe this time I might get an answer.

Why is there such a massive mark-up on French instruments being sold in the US?

Chris.

Post Edited (2021-10-16 19:39)

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: anonrob 
Date:   2021-10-16 20:14

There are several Selmer dealers in the St. Louis area, only SaxQuest has a website, but there are other dealers. I will say they don't stock many if any professional instruments because of the cost and limited market, but they are certified dealers.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: farabout 
Date:   2021-10-16 22:11

Chris P wrote:

> I'll just ask this question again, maybe this time I might get
> an answer.
>
> Why is there such a massive mark-up on French instruments being
> sold in the US?
>


Is there?

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2021-10-16 22:35

Read my previous comments.

Chris.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: farabout 
Date:   2021-10-17 01:32

Am still awaiting if anyone will comment on the Muse's fused upper+lower joint (often misnamed as a "single piece" horn). Given the fact that Selmer Presence "2-piece" Bb/A model has already resolved the C#4/G#5 issue with a raised hole, I cannot resist wondering why did they design Muse as a 'single piece'?

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: prigault 
Date:   2021-10-17 01:47

farabout wrote:

> Am still awaiting if anyone will comment on the Muse's fused
> upper+lower joint (often misnamed as a "single piece" horn).
> Given the fact that Selmer Presence "2-piece" Bb/A model has
> already resolved the C#4/G#5 issue with a raised hole, I cannot
> resist wondering why did they design Muse as a 'single piece'?

Doesn't look like a one piece horn to me.
Just a blackened ring on the lower joint.

Look at 4:00, it is very clear that there are two pieces, with the standard correspondence keys.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2021-10-17 01:51

The "unibody" seemes like a bridge too far for just about every manufacturer except Rossi...........so I looked closer at the video. If you freeze at 2:36 you'll see that the ring (carbon fiber?) is black.....but it's there.





..............Paul Aviles



Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2021-10-17 01:56

Perhaps there was no need to comment on something as glaringly obvious as a black socket ring. You only get answers if you ask questions and that question was never brought up.

Then again, actual questions requiring answers have been asked and haven't received replies.

Chris.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: farabout 
Date:   2021-10-17 02:26

Thank you prigault, Paul & Chris for pointing it out the detail which I couldn't figure out with my heavy myopia (@ -7).

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: farabout 
Date:   2021-10-17 02:46

Back to the remaining open question: can anyone offer 2 (or more) cents about the stability & durability of the resin interior lining? How resilient is the novel resin/grenadilla combo to the ambient temperature changes, as opposed to grenadilla proper? Would the interior resin lining be prone to separate from the exterior grenadilla body (long term)? Why did they chose to apply the resin only on the upper part of the upper joint, which segment is the most heavily stressed by temperature, and therefore most prone to crack? One must consider the fact that though the said resin might somewhat alleviate the influence of inner humidity, it will however not eliminate the inside & outside temperature stress.



Post Edited (2021-10-17 02:58)

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: m1964 
Date:   2021-10-17 03:18

Chris P wrote:

"Why is there such a massive mark-up on French instruments being sold in the US?

I thought the UK was rip-off city."

Perhaps, there is a Selmer distributor (like the Buffet USA) that makes a sizable mark up on the instruments.

I was told by a US Buffet dealer that they pay for a Buffet clarinets as much as the European retail price.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2021-10-17 03:39

Interesting points about the lining. Rossi does exactly the same thing with their horns. As a thought experiment it would seem the temperature issue would still be a problem. I wonder if they apply any of that resin to the interior of tone holes, another great place to prevent the horn from the vagaries of wood distorting over time. I don't know if any manufacturer ever experimented with hydrophobic coatings but that might be even more effective than resin.



...............Paul Aviles



Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: farabout 
Date:   2021-10-17 04:15

Certo. Yet, if the manufacturer's general strategic goal is to prevent cracking, why don't they simply switch to a synthetic (ie, hard rubber, plastic, acrylic) body (eg, Ridenours' Lyrique & Jared De Leon's 3D-printed horns), at the fraction of cost/price compared to wood?

Given the fact that, timbre- and intonation-wise, the material does not matter one bit, why bother with expensive fancy concepts such as Greenline, Evolution & likes? Are we to expect the upcoming launch of multi-layer resin-grenadilla-cocodrilo-boxcar-silver-gold-platinum-rhodium-titanium-kryptonite-craptonite clarinets, eventually?



Post Edited (2021-10-17 07:35)

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: Hugues Fardao 
Date:   2021-10-17 07:03

I love Selmer but all the advertising around their "Evolution" system, a resin in the upper joint avoiding cracks... well, Yamaha did it years ago with their "Duet+" system. The upper joint body is drilled out slightly larger and then a resin is droped in it.

It seems the difference is that "The final boring is then done in a traditional way" (Selmer) while "Thermoplastic ABS resin is injected into the cavity, instantly forming the inner shape of a clarinet" (Yamaha). Selmer re-drills the bore, Yamaha covers the bore, but hey Selmer : resin injection is not your idea.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: kilo 
Date:   2021-10-17 16:12

Quote:

Yet, if the manufacturer's general strategic goal is to prevent cracking, why don't they simply switch to a synthetic (ie, hard rubber, plastic, acrylic) body (eg, Ridenours' Lyrique & Jared De Leon's 3D-printed horns), at the fraction of cost/price compared to wood?

This is the age-old question. There'd be a lot more African blackwood trees still growing in the forest and a lot more money in clarinet players' bank accounts. Assuming, of course, that the instrument makers passed the money saved in material costs on to the buyers. I like the idea that Buffet recycles their sawdust and shop sweepings but they sell their composite horns for the same price as their solid wood ones.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: smokindok 
Date:   2021-10-17 19:17

My first oboe was a Buffet 4052. Grenadilla with the bore lined with a resin material called “Luracast”, so Buffet has been doing the resin lined bore for quite some time.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2021-10-17 20:04

Buffet have never done this on any of their oboes whereas Schreiber have been doing this for decades. The only Buffet instruments with lined bores are their bassoons which have ebonite lined descending bores as opposed to a cast resin lining.

Your Buffet oboe wasn't made by Buffet - it was made by Schreiber who also made Buffet's line of student model clarinets from the B10 to the E12 as well as the B&H Regent II and Evette clarinets among others. As Schreiber are better known for their bassoons, they've been lining the descending bores of their bassoons in this same manner to protect the maple from rotting and transferred this method to their oboes to prevent the top joints from cracking.

Only with the Schreiber-built Buffet student level oboes, they also resin lined the lower joint which isn't necessary and if anything, makes the middle socket weak leaving only around 1mm of wood supporting the resin lining which is brittle.

Chris.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: Max S-D 
Date:   2021-10-17 22:36

> Why is there such a massive mark-up on French instruments being sold in the US?

Selmer's North American distributor seems to add a pretty massive markup to the instruments and accessories. Most of them, at least. This has been the case for years. Mike Lowenstern's article from 12 years ago about how Americans can save money or at least break even by traveling to Paris to buy a Selmer bass clarinet is, I'm pretty sure, still full of valid information, even if all of the numbers are higher now.

For example, the Selmer Concept bass clarinet mouthpiece is priced at $389 at Woodwind and Brasswind here in the US and $189 at Thomann in Germany, both comparably massive mail-order operations. That's over TWICE the price. No wonder the Concept isn't even worth consideration for American players. It's cheaper to get one shipped to you from Thomann than to buy from a domestic retailer.

Selmer's Low C bass clarinets are listed on Thomann's site starting under $10,000 US. WWBW has them listed for over $16,000. WWBW doesn't have them in stock either. In talking to retailers in the US, the distributor probably doesn't have any on hand, either, so they'd be ordering one from Paris anyway.

The markup percentages vary from product to product.

- A Series III tenor saxophone costs $5,500 at Thomann and $7,600 at WWBW
- A Selmer Signature clarinet costs $4,400 at Thomann and $5,500 at WWBW

Price differences for Buffets are similar. An R13 with silver plated keys is $4,200 at WWBW and $2,850 at Thomann.

It always seems to me that Selmer and Buffet's North American distribution strategies are screwing the consumers, local music stores and the brands themselves over in the US. When it's cheaper and faster for me to take a European vacation and buy a saxophone on my trip than to walk to my local music store, that's a problem for music stores.

Even if you are fastidious about paying import duties (and you should be), that's not going to come close to the price of buying in the US.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: smokindok 
Date:   2021-10-17 23:07


Chris P. said: "Your Buffet oboe wasn't made by Buffet..."

Yes, Chris, you are, of course, correct. I should have clarified that, though it is sold under the Buffet name, it is indeed like the clarinets, made by Schreiber. It is a Schreiber feature, on oboes made for Buffet.

Though I replaced it with a Howarth, the 4052 wasn't too bad of an instrument. I suspect the newer 4062, the "Prodige", is decent, too, for a budget priced instrument.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: farabout 
Date:   2021-10-18 03:54

Ergo, let's run a poll. Though I may guess that a vast majority of this board's participants (myself included) would be eager to get our hands & chops on Muse, how many of us would indeed be willing to trade in our current horns for the swanky Selmer's bells'n'whistles semi-tarred newcomer?



Post Edited (2021-10-18 03:57)

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: kdk 2017
Date:   2021-10-18 04:15

Can I get it for free?

Karl

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: farabout 
Date:   2021-10-18 04:59

kdk wrote:

> Can I get it for free?
>
> Karl

Maybe, but only with feathers upon the evolutionary tar
;-)

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: Dm Zisl 
Date:   2021-10-20 05:10

@ farabout
“ Ergo, let's run a poll. Though I may guess that a vast majority of this board's participants (myself included) would be eager to get our hands & chops on Muse, how many of us would indeed be willing to trade in our current horns for the swanky Selmer's bells'n'whistles semi-tarred newcomer?”

Guilty as charged :-) I did think about such possibility.
For the record, I have a Privilege 1st generation set + a backup Bb Privilege also 1st gen., and 7 years later, I still love these horns.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2021-10-21 19:58

The Sax Stable in California has the Muse listed for $6,579.00 (MSRP of $11,779.00). Extremely limited US distribution, so they say. And no mention of the optional thumb trigger for the low E and F venting.



https://www.saxstable.com/products/selmer-paris-b16muse-bb-clarinet-brand-new-muse-model








.................Paul Aviles



Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: farabout 
Date:   2021-10-21 22:27

Paul Aviles wrote:

> The Sax Stable in California has the Muse listed for $6,579.00
> (MSRP of $11,779.00).
>

About the same as Selmer's Privilege, Signature & Recital (@ Kessler), and way below the truly outrageous $8-9k range of Backun's MoBa & Lumiere, and Cra(m)pon's Tosca & Divine (ibidem).

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: Patrick 
Date:   2021-10-22 03:12

When I was living in Rhode Island, I talked with one of the local music shops that did keep high end instruments on hand. I asked him about Selmer’s and he said he could always order them for customers to try out. It never hurts to ask what a local music store can do.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: Hugues Fardao 
Date:   2021-10-23 23:11

Just tested today, a Selmer day in a town at 100 Km from my home, I took my car and let's go.

The Muse is indeed easy and flexible, very very even, perfect accuracy with left hand notes, excellent free blowing, responsive and very comfortable keywork, they do not lie in the advertising (at the same time at the price it retails...).

But I still prefer the Privilège, which has the same qualities, but wich is however less homogeneous than the Muse. The Muse appeals to me less because of its slightly colored sound. The Privilege for me has less medium frequencies than the Muse, I really appreciate its clarity which does not leave aside the Selmer punch, when the Muse is more balanced but more colorful.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: Dm Zisl 
Date:   2021-10-25 07:55

Very interesting, thank you for sharing! (A Privilege player here, too)
Does Muse’s evenness translate to any dynamic limitation?
Would it dynamically cut it in jazz, klezmer, multi-genre musical theatre, just as it does in classical / orchestral situation? (I do understand the difference in setups and embouchure; I often go between all these genres and more)
How were the low E and F without the correction keys (if you had a chance to use a tuner)? Thank you!



Post Edited (2021-10-25 07:56)

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Selmer Muse Bb and A clarinets (new model / 2021)
Author: Hugues Fardao 
Date:   2021-10-25 09:01

I did'nt feel any dynamic limitation. No tuner when tested, sorry.

Reply To Message
 Avail. Forums  |  Threaded View   Newer Topic  |  Older Topic 


 Avail. Forums  |  Need a Login? Register Here 
 User Login
 User Name:
 Password:
 Remember my login:
   
 Forgot Your Password?
Enter your email address or user name below and a new password will be sent to the email address associated with your profile.
Search Woodwind.Org

Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale

The Clarinet Pages
is sponsored by:

For Sale
Put your ads for items you'd like to sell here. Free! Please, no more than two at a time - ads removed after two weeks.

Music & Books
CDs, Sheet Music, and some of the greatest reference books ever written!

Mouthpieces & Barrels
Fine makers of mouthpieces and barrels, from wood to crystal to hard rubber and plastic

Events
Major events especially for clarinetists

Reeds
Great reeds available from around the world

Instruments
Retailers and manufacturers of clarinets, both modern and early replica

Accessories
Accessories that every clarinetist needs - reed makers and shapers, ligatures, greases, oils, and preservatives ... and more!

Service
Instrument repairs, restorations, adjustments, and overhauls.

Miscellaneous
Services and products too varied to categorize! Repair, recording, news

 
     Copyright © Woodwind.Org, Inc. All Rights Reserved    Privacy Policy    Contact charette@woodwind.org