 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2021-07-02 11:11
Hi, long time since I last posted here!
I'm curious if anyone here who plays Buffet Tradition/Légende has had any success in finding aftermarket barrels that work with this bore family. The Moennig barrels that worked beautifully on my previous instruments feel pretty strange on the Tradition, and I've heard the same from other people who've switched. Icon barrels were close but not quite right; I have a few Chadash barrels on trial that work quite well, and YG told me that's what he's using on his Tradition. Before I invest in the Chadash barrels, though, I'm just wondering if anyone has any other suggestions, or knows of any barrels that were designed specifically for this bore. Thanks in advance!
Max
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Author: m1964
Date: 2021-07-02 12:07
maxopf wrote:
> Hi, long time since I last posted here!
>
> I'm curious if anyone here who plays Buffet Tradition/Légende
> has had any success in finding aftermarket barrels that work
> with this bore family...
Hi Max,
I am unable to help you with an aftermarket barrel, but I am curious what is it you are trying to achieve using an aftermarket barrel?
Different barrels of the same model/manufacturer will sound differently.
Maybe you can try a couple of Buffet Legende barrels. If you are lucky, you may find one tnat sounds better than the one that came with the clarinet.
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Author: Robert N.
Date: 2021-07-02 18:14
I use an Icon barrel on my Tradition (first generation Tradition).
I did try a few others such as the Polaris which was also quite good. but I prefer the Icon overall. That said, I have not tried the Chadash barrels. I would also be curious to try Aidoni barrels.
Post Edited (2021-07-02 18:17)
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Author: Clarineat
Date: 2021-07-02 19:42
I agree it's pretty important to know what you want to find in your tone/sound/response before you try to achieve it.
It reminds me of this witty comment I once heard mentioned by a salesperson about a multi-effects guitar pedal: "It has every tone possible, except the one you want." Basically what he meant is that if you don't know what you want, or how to use it, you will never find it, even though the machine is capable of it.
All instrument accessories are like this, you have to know what you want first and then go looking for it.
Sean Perrin
Host of the Clarineat Podcast
Listen FREE at www.clarineat.com
hello@clarineat.com
Post Edited (2021-07-02 19:45)
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2021-07-02 20:07
It might help if you could say 1) what features in the Tradition led you to switch and 2) what additional features would you like to get from an aftermarket barrel.
Some features I like in the Tradition (compared with the R13) are the rounder easier non-brittle emission in the altissimo and a general improvement in intonation throughout. Some features that a barrel could theoretically improve would be depth and presence of sound and increased projection to compensate for the very "laid back" relaxed tendencies of the Tradition. Are your wishes and perceptions along these lines or something very different?
Also, direct consultation with Chadash or Brad Behn concerning barrels for the Tradition might be helpful.
Post Edited (2021-07-03 21:24)
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2021-07-02 20:27
I am looking for something that slightly reduces the inherent resistance in this model and allows me to achieve a bit of a wider spectrum of overtones (more "ring"). The stock barrels are not bad, but I find the response to be a bit tubby and the sound can tend towards dullness. I also find the upper register LH to be flatter and the RH to be sharper on these instruments, so anything that could slightly correct those tendencies would be fantastic, but I am most concerned about sound and response.
m1964, Buffet doesn't sell Légende/Tradition barrels individually, do they?
LFabian, unlike on my old R13 Prestiges (for which bore the Moennig barrel was designed), I feel increased resistance and unevenness when I use Moennig on my Tradition.
edit: Seabreeze, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. I switched because I love the focus/center of the sound on these instruments, the legato feels very liquid, and generally the intonation is much improved from my R13s (despite the issue I mentioned above). I just find myself missing the overtones at times, and though I appreciate the added resistance in this model, I could stand for a tiny bit less.
Max
Post Edited (2021-07-02 20:36)
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Author: Pereira3D
Date: 2021-07-02 20:38
I also experienced a similar "strange" feeling testing the Traditions at Buffet in Jacksonville while using a more traditional reverse taper-bore barrel. I had much more success with a slightly smaller, cylindrical bore. Keeps the focus and core like reverse-taper bore barrels do on R13s, etc. but tends to respond nicely with the Tradition/Legende bore style.
Ryan Pereira
Pereira 3D Clarinet Services
www.Pereira3D.com
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Author: Robert N.
Date: 2021-07-02 21:02
Ryan,
how did you like the Tradition with your R17 barrel?
Your R17 barrel seems like it would be very similar to the Buffet Icon barrel.
Robert
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Author: Pereira3D
Date: 2021-07-02 21:09
Hi Robert,
That bore design also worked quite well with the Tradition. I found it responded more comfortably compared to the reverse tapers.
Ryan Pereira
Pereira 3D Clarinet Services
www.Pereira3D.com
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Author: Hurstfarm
Date: 2021-07-02 21:13
I’ve been playing Legendes for the last couple of years. I’ve tried a couple of Chadash and Moennig barrels out of curiosity, but for me the stock barrels work better and give me what I’m looking for. I don’t have the resistance or intonation issues noted above - although as you might expect the A clarinet is a smidge more resistant than the Bb.
Tradition/Legende barrels can be ordered separately, but you’d be lucky to find a retailer with a supply in stock. Having bought my Bb and A instruments separately I’ve got 2 each of 64, 65 and 66mm barrels, so have picked my favourite of each size, but the differences are miniscule.
That said, I sometimes use an Icon barrel for a slightly brighter sound, although blind testing with my wife, who is also a musician, suggests that may be more felt than audible. Intonation wise, in my experience there’s really nothing to choose between the stock barrels and the equivalent Icon.
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2021-07-02 21:22
Ryan, that's very helpful, thanks. I've been suspecting that maybe a reverse taper barrel isn't the best match for the Tradition's cylindrical bore.
I'm curious what could explain why the Chadash works significantly better on the Tradition than the Moennig, considering both are reverse taper — is the Chadash, with its "slow progression of the taper" (as advertised), a closer approximation of a cylinder than the Moennig is? Either way, I may try to explore more cylindrical bore options before settling on the Chadash.
Hurstfarm, this is also helpful. I may give the Icons another try. I only had a few to choose from last time, and they felt quite comfortable, but the sound seemed small. But maybe with a bigger selection I can find one with the sound I'm looking for.
Max
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Author: Una
Date: 2021-07-02 21:48
I play a Tradition with a Backun Fat Boy barrel. I know it doesn't work for everyone since everyone has a different concept when it comes to "works for me" but for me it's in tune and plays to my liking.
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2021-07-02 22:47
Max,
You might explore Brad Behn's new Evo Adjustable Barrels. To my ears, the metal Evo adds overtones and zing to the sound. I'm not sure about the resistance.
Here's Eric Black testing both Evo models (top hit on page):
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=eric+black+testing+behn+barrels
Another way to boost overtones might be switching to a more incisive sounding mouthpiece (for example switching to a BD4 from a BD5) or using a more vibrant reed (for example a Vandoren Blue Box instead of the other Vandoren Models, or trying an Ishimori reed or one of Behn's line of reeds, Aria or Brio that are very vibrant.
The Buffet Tradition is a musical, sweet-sounding clarinet, one of the easiest models on the market to play in tune, and one that blends with just about any instrumental or vocal combination. It will probably be my next clarinet, and then I'll be facing the same issues you are about what works best with it. Let us know if the Chadash barrels work out.
Post Edited (2021-07-03 20:10)
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Author: per1970
Date: 2021-07-15 23:34
Hello,
I'm Per Johansson, one of the creators of the Aidoni barrels. I am not very familiar with publishing on this page, but I suspect that it may not be appropriate to market own products etc. I will therefore try to be informative only.
We in the Aidoni team have been working intensively on a new barrel model for about three years. Due to the pandemic situation, we were able to make a really deep dive into a state of development and let the process take time, in a way that we could not have done under normal circumstances.
The result will hopefully be released soon. We have made a total update of our entire barrel concept - everything is changed / improved. The model we are working with is still in its latest test mode, but one of the goals has been to offer the best possible match to Buffet Tradition and Legende. Whether we will succeed in this is up to the customers to decide.
/Per
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2021-07-15 23:49
Is Martin Frost one of the advisors/testers in the new barrel design?
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Author: per1970
Date: 2021-07-16 01:27
Martin Fröst has not been involved in the new Aidoni model, but we hope that he soon would like to try our new model - to get his approval would be fantastic. The bore design is a kind of continuation from our Medium bore, which we know that Martin has used at concerts and recordings.
We have been collaborationg with two skilled test pilots on this trip. (Their names can be announced a bit later.) Their feedback and advice has been very valuable to us. We have a lot of confidence in their taste and assessments.
Among their more recent requests has been:
– More ring in the sound
– More flexibility, both in legato playing and in tone colour
Developing instruments can sometimes be quite frustrating, because when you change a small detail, everything might change. Therefore, we have taken the really long way and focused on only one parameter at a time. Eventually, we have learned to take control of a number of aspects. In the end, we hope that more players will feel what we feel in the barrels and will like the direction we have chosen.
/Per
Aidoni clarinet barrels
info@aidonimusic.com
www.aidonimusic.com
Post Edited (2021-07-16 01:29)
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2021-07-23 04:24
Hello Per! I didn't mention your new barrel here earlier, as I wasn't sure if it was supposed to remain under wraps. But since you mentioned it — I really liked the one I tried from a certain test-pilot-who-shall-not-be-named. I played on the barrel for a recording session at school, and it felt very comfortable and flexible on the Tradition and projected nicely. I look forward to trying more of the prototypes down the line, and seeing the final result of these developments.
For those who were following the thread: I've decided to invest in a pair of Chadash barrels. Many of the ones I tried felt a bit odd on the Tradition, but a few worked exceptionally well. I also tried some barrels from Clark Fobes — he has a newer version of his Blackwood barrels with silver rings, which IMHO makes a huge difference as compared to the ringless barrels, and he recommended trying the Tosca bore. I'm not certain that this bore was a perfect match for the Tradition, but these barrels are absolutely worth trying. And of course I am looking forward to the new Aidoni barrels, as I think they're quite promising and a good match for the Tradition.
Max
Post Edited (2021-07-23 04:26)
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2021-07-25 11:01
You just spent $5k+ on a new clarinet, how come it’s so easy to assume that the company that built that clarinet didn’t know how to build a barrel?
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Author: per1970
Date: 2021-07-25 15:18
One thing we have tried to solve is that when barrels are made longer - 66 mm and 67 mm - the reverse conical shape becomes more elongated. The angle of the cone becomes less steep which makes the feeling a bit more “pale”, the feeling is a little less intense. On our new Aidoni model we have tried to compensate for this phenomenon. We have designed a conical bore where you hopefully will get the same feedback / feeling when playing on a longer barrel as when you play on a shorter one.
Aidoni clarinet barrels
info@aidonimusic.com
www.aidonimusic.com
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Author: igalkov
Date: 2021-07-25 21:10
Tom, the same way you ended up playing Behn adjustable barrel I guess
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2021-07-26 04:01
Tom, I actually didn't mind the barrels that came with the Tradition! I've been playing on them for the last year and half since I bought the instruments, and I think they're much better than the stock barrels on my old R13 Prestiges, for example. I would have happily continued to play on them, but I just decided I wanted to look for something with some slightly different attributes.
Per, I have definitely experienced that with longer barrels. I believe the prototype I tried was 65mm, curious to see what the longer barrels are like!
Max
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Author: Djudy
Date: 2021-08-01 15:43
more barril innovations to try ! ? Just saw a barril that has a "ressonance chamber" with f-holes, on the Thomann site (search for "Dirk Vandamme BAiRREL").
The clarinet is the true back hole...
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Author: per1970
Date: 2022-07-09 18:19
If anyone is still following this thread: the development process of the new Aidoni barrel model is now, after three years of research, finished. After all intense work, prototype making, testing and evaluating, over and over again, we have finally landed in a barrel that we are really happy with and hopefully it will appeal to many other players. We will start producing the new Aidoni barrel model in August 2022.
Aidoni clarinet barrels
info@aidonimusic.com
www.aidonimusic.com
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2022-07-09 20:21
Will the new model geared to the Tradition/Legende bore have a special name or designation? How will a player identify it in contrast to older Adioni models? Also, will it be available in more than one kind of wood? Is this the #499 model you mention on your website?
Post Edited (2022-07-09 22:07)
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2022-07-09 20:33
For decades, dozens of pro orchestral players have preferred to use Moennig or Chadash barrels on their Buffet clarinets, so much so that Buffet eventually just went along with them and introduced Moennig and Chadash barrels of their own, as an essential part of their accessory offerings. Rather than say. "so you think we don't know how to make barrels," they took the route of versatility and said, "we can make standard Buffet barrels, Moening and Chadash barrels, and Icon barrels--take your choice."
Post Edited (2022-07-09 20:36)
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Author: per1970
Date: 2022-07-10 19:17
The name of the new Aidoni model will be #499. It will later be easy to find on our website. To begin with, it will only be made of Grenadilla wood. If we try to make the new model in other types of wood - which can certainly happen - we must first evaluate how it works and most likely we will have to adjust several parameters before we feel happy about the result.
Aidoni clarinet barrels
info@aidonimusic.com
www.aidonimusic.com
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