 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Maruja
Date: 2021-04-22 14:40
I have just bought a new mp and am determined to keep it pristine! My other ones are badly stained (especially down the side rails) and I have not been able to remove stains by the conventional methods. My husband suggests using a baby wipe after each playing session. Any thoughts? Will this damage the material in any way? Any advice gratefully received!
Maruja
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2021-04-22 16:32
Sounds a little gross tbh...
Have you tried using dish soap and cold water (not hot, that will discolor it)? You should just be able to remove any deposits with just washing by hand, or worst case scenario with a soft tooth brush and soap (I only reserve this for mouthpieces that are really nasty). I try to wash my mouthpiece after every time I play it and it still looks new 4 years later.
If you are talking about the green color some mouthpieces develop, you can polish that away with automotive headlight polish and a cotton swab. This is common for restoring old mouthpieces if you have an old mouthpiece lying around give it a try. Just avoid touching the facing with the polish.
-Jdbassplayer
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2021-04-22 16:53
I have used denture cleaner and soft toothbrush with success when I have a crusty mouthpiece in my repair shop. Otherwise I use dish soap and a soft brush. A quick rinse in water and a wipe with a soft cloth might suffice for a daily routine.
Steve Ocone
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Author: kdk
Date: 2021-04-22 17:16
Maruja wrote:
> My other ones are badly stained (especially down the
> side rails) and I have not been able to remove stains by the
> conventional methods.
I guess it depends a little on what exactly the stains are and what "conventional methods" you've already tried.
A soak in vinegar or lemon juice will remove the white-ish mineral deposits that precipitate out of saliva when it dries. I put my mouthpieces tip down in a shot glass of vinegar for an hour or so, then rinse it and wipe it off.
I'm surprised to read that soap will remove these deposits, but a soapy rinse will certainly take off other kinds of dirt that might get onto the rails.
I'm not sure what cleaning properties you'd get from baby wipes that would be better than plain dish soap.
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-04-22 17:40
It may also be a combination your body's chemical makeup and that of the mouthpiece. I, for the first time, have come across an issue with the white (calcium?) deposits which started to manifest almost within the first few days on a brand new mouthpiece (a unique vulcanized product........a contributing factor?). I do wipe and/or rinse off at the end of each day.
Normally the white deposits take months or more to form, and usually under outdoor conditions.
My solution is to ignore it since the mouthpiece is amazing and the point is for it to sound good not look good. Honestly I find it a nuisance but it doesn't seem like there is a practical solution that won't negatively affect the playing characteristics so am forced to be Zen about it (if that is possible).
I also do have very acidic sweat that eats silver plating for breakfast unless I assiduously wipe down the keys after every playing day with a cotton cloth. I don't know if it is related to the calcium stains but I would not rule that out.
....................Paul Aviles
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-04-22 18:02
I'll be damned.
I just used a "flushable wipe" (two actually), wiping in a manner to avoid the side rails and avoiding a "sanding effect." It seems to work GREAT and does not seem to have a negative effect on the material (so far).
The active ingredient that may be at work here is TOCHOPHERYL ACETATE. Is your husband a chemist? You guys may want to patent a clarinet wipe.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: LFabian
Date: 2021-04-22 20:20
I remember somewhere when storing a mouthpiece for sometime not to leave the ligature on. I’ve been using Armorall only on the rubber mouthpieces and washing them down after. Maybe 2/3 times a year. I rotate around 5 pieces so that they don’t look awful.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2021-04-22 22:47
Paul Aviles wrote:
> ... it doesn't seem like there is a
> practical solution that won't negatively affect the playing
> characteristics
What negative effect will either vinegar or sudsy water/baby wipes have?
Karl
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2021-04-22 23:48
Cruddy LOOKING mouthpieces are normal, as long as there ACTUALLY clean. It helps to scrape anything you see off with your thumbnail as it happens.
I use vinegar on old mouthpieces. It works great on the mineral deposits. Leave it in 10 minutes, then take it out and brush it with a toothbrush, or just rub it with your fingers. If it doesn’t all come off repeat. When done, rinse with cool water (never warm), and IMMEDIATELY dry. If you don’t dry it it can begin oxidizing quickly. Once it’s dry it’s fine. I haven’t had any problems, but don’t leave it in overnight. Also, it’s a good idea to check it after a minute or two, just to make sure nothing weird happens.
I use “Fabulustre” polishing compound on a 4” muslin buff in a drill to remove oxidation, and to polish. It’s amazing. Tape over the maker’s marks, and lightly go over them when almost done. You have to tape off the facing carefully to avoid altering them in any way.
- Matthew Simington
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-04-23 05:45
I can't say for sure since I never used the lemon/vinegar solution idea much. But it does affect the quality of the vulcanized rubber surface to give it a more flat, almost "porous" appearance. I was afraid that after regular use, the solution treatment might affect the rubber in some negative fashion (more brittle, less firm........not sure, just didn't like the looks of the results).
I don't have a problem with the wipes as of now. In fact it looks like this could be a great way to solve the mineral deposit problem. The mouthpiece vulcanized rubber looks fine, unlike the vinegar/lemon juice method.
Again NOT water, the ingredient most likely to be the active component is the tocopheryl acetate though there are others in there that might be more key. Any chemists out there with baby wipes or flushable wipes who might know?
[tocopheryl acetate is the ester of acetic acid....the main component of vinegar. so there's no getting around vinegar.]
.................Paul Aviles
Post Edited (2021-04-23 07:31)
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2021-04-23 07:46
You didn't ask, but I agree with Paul. Doesn't matter what it looks like as long as it works well and is not a health hazzard. I rinse mine thoroughly in cold water (no soap, anything else). Have been using it for about 20 years. Same with the one before that (25 years). I too use a cloth to wipe the keys after each playing (blow hot air on them first). Removes acidy sweat. My 1999 Buffet still basically looks new.
Stuff on the mouthpiece over time can be removed carefully with a tool of your choice.
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Author: donald
Date: 2021-04-28 03:06
Jdbassplayer, I'm interested in trying your "headlight polish" remedy- I have quite a few green mouthpieces, and the clientele here in NZ tends to be very snooty about the green look (raise eyes to heaven emoji). The local repair shops are totally unhelpful.
A bottle of that stuff costs $30 here (might be able to find a smaller bottle...) which is pain for something I just want to try out... Has anyone else used this method?
I guess I should just take Jdbassplayers word for it, but so much unhelpful "advice" comes through this bb.... hmmmmm
Many years ago I sent two old mouthpieces to Mike Lomax for refacing (a long story, both had stories behind them and sentimental value). He sent them back looking brand spanking new, totally black and shiny... I asked at the time how he did it but got no reply so I assumed it was a trade secret.
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Author: kehammel
Date: 2021-04-28 07:31
I am not a very good clarinetist but I am an experienced biochemist. Tocopheryl acetate is just a version of vitamin E. The "acetate" in it does, indeed, refer to acetic acid (vinegar), as Paul said. But in this context, "acetate" just means that an acid (acetic acid) has been chemically attached to an alcohol (vitamin E) to make a product (an ester), which can penetrate the skin better than ordinary vitamin E. The idea is that this form of vitamin E is supposed be soothing when the wipes are used on the baby.
Tocopheryl acetate is not acidic, so it does not act like vinegar. In fact, its presence in baby wipes has nothing to do with their ability to clean things.
Post Edited (2021-04-28 07:32)
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Author: Maruja
Date: 2021-04-28 14:37
Thanks for all this input! A bit of an update - I tried the soaking in vinegar method for an old MP - it didn't help at all. In fact, it came out a nastier shade of greenish khaki.
My other comment is that the water we have here is very hard and we get lime deposits over taps and in the kettle. We have a water softener which works with the hot water only. In order to avoid salt and lime, I decided to get some rainwater from the water butt to clean off the new mouthpiece instead of going to the tap. I am waiting to see if this will work as a preventative measure.
I agree with those posters who say that appearance doesn't matter, as long as the mp is a good one, but I was hoping to sell a couple of my old examples and there is no way that anyone would buy them in their current condition---
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-04-28 17:46
So.....two questions from the above responses.
1. Why can't you touch the facing of a mouthpiece with automotive headlight polish?
2. What is the active ingredient in "baby wipes" that is helpful in removing the mineral stains?
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: JTJC
Date: 2021-04-28 19:00
I’ve seen some automotive videos where they’ve suggested using toothpaste to clean headlights. If you have the type of toothpaste that’s a bit gritty, the whitening variety, that can put a polish on things. I’ve used it around the tip area of old mouthpieces, after using white wine vinegar to remove the gunk, and it puts a decent polish on it. I haven’t noticed any adverse effect on any mouthpiece I’ve used this method on. I’m not fanatical about getting a super shine on mouthpieces so not sure how far this technique could go with a bit more effort. As with other techniques you have to avoid the rails. It’s worth trying if you have toothpaste in the house.
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Author: kehammel
Date: 2021-04-29 23:46
To answer Paul's latest question, baby wipes always contain a detergent, generally one which has been selected to be less irritating to skin than some other detergents. For example, some Pampers wipes contain caprylic triglyceride.
As far as the clarinet mouthpiece is concerned, the type of detergent probably doesn't matter. The deposits are mixtures of calcium salts, bits of dead skin, and oily gunk from whatever was floating around in your mouth after lunch. The detergent helps break all this stuff up.
So you could dip a soft polishing tissue or cloth (of the type used to clean eyeglasses, for example) into water containing a little dish soap, and probably get the same result.
If you alternate a vinegar treatment with a detergent treatment (I would do them separately), the result might be even better.
Ken Hammel
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Author: BethGraham
Date: 2021-04-30 01:13
Attachment: IMG_20210429_164517.jpg (1786k)
Attachment: IMG_20210429_170202.jpg (1368k)
I tried some toothpaste on a gross Selmer 3 mouthpiece today, which didn't do much, though it did leave the mouthpiece minty fresh. Afterwards, I decided to try some baking soda, which was a bit more successful, in that it faded the discoloration. I rinsed well afterwards.
Tomorrow I might try another round of baking soda.
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Author: kehammel
Date: 2021-04-30 02:12
If you are making a paste of the baking soda, and then using a cloth to rub the mouthpiece with the paste, be aware that this paste is slightly abrasive. For example, people use it to polish small scratches off the lenses of eyeglasses.
Also, many toothpastes contain an abrasive to help polish teeth.
In either case, it might be better to avoid rubbing a critical part of the mouthpiece with the mixture, in case the dimensions might be slightly changed.
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2021-04-30 02:22
Try rubbing with a clean cloth, like tee shirt material.
When you use vinegar you have to rinse with cold water and dry immediately. If you leave it air dry it will oxidize. Any new oxidization is very superficial can be easily removed with a cloth rub. I use white vinegar.
I asked on a forum about mouthpieces. You can find more info on pen restoration sites. Here's two that were suggested, similar to what I've heard before. I haven't used them:
Makes "deoxidizer": https://www.facebook.com/lbepen/
Makes dye pens for hard rubber: [
https://pensburymanor.com/pensburymanor/Pen_Potions_7_8,_9,_10_%26_Potion_Kit.html
I don't like using any kind of industrial polish, like metal polish, on mouthpieces because they contain toxic solvents. I'm not keen on dyes for the same reason. I'm sure that a lot of them would work though. Also dyes IMO are kind of like painting over rusty metal, it's still there, but you can't see it. Olive oil is supposed to make mouthpieces appear black.
Dry polish, like buffing compound, contains some wax (depending on the formula), but Fabulustre is very dry and clean. You have to prep the piece by taping what you don't want buffed, and have to learn how to buff, but it's so much easier than rubbing by hand. You can also try white rouge, red rouge, and blue. Most white is very waxy and will leave a mess, it also varies as to how fine it is. Red is very dusty. Blue is made for plastic, but I haven't tried it. I always wash with soap afterward to get any reside off.
- Matthew Simington
Post Edited (2021-04-30 17:45)
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Author: donald
Date: 2021-04-30 13:27
I can categorically state that while polishing with olive oil DOES make a mouthpiece more shiny, it does nothing to restore the black colour (after the finish has faded/gone green)
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Author: JTJC
Date: 2021-04-30 16:03
Hi Beth. Just to be clear, the toothpaste should be used dry on a cloth over the tip of a finger, avoiding any of the rails. As kehammel notes, the pastes should be a bit gritty as that’s what polishes. After a few strokes you should notice some discolouration of the cloth as it ever so slightly wears the surface. All the polishing methods mentioned remove some material but it’s microns/negligible.
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Author: BethGraham
Date: 2021-04-30 17:24
Since this is a yucky mouthpiece that came along with an eBay Special (Selmer 3), I'm not worried about destroying it. However, I did use the toothpaste more or less dry, after I figured out the technique. A baking soda paste was far more effective at removing the discoloration, though -- and I rinsed everything off carefully afterwards. I did my best to avoid the rails.
I did this just to experiment with some of the methods mentioned in this thread. I'm not sure I'd dare to be as aggressive with a valuable mouthpiece!
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2021-04-30 17:50
Somebody in a clarinet repair forum said to use hydrogen peroxide.
I looked it up and found a bunch of recipes for hydrogen peroxide mixed with all kinds of stuff to use for everything under the sun. Some of them mixed hydrogen peroxide with baking soda. If you try it let us know.
- Matthew Simington
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