 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Nomenclature
Date: 2021-03-23 00:05
How can I help my clarinet student sound better with his higher notes? Anything from the G above the top line on the stave and upwards sounds very flat, especially when tonguing and there's an 'underneath' thumping sound accompanying these notes too. They sound really flat and I'm not sure what to suggest. He tells me his embouchure is firm (difficult to tell as we're having online lessons) He plays with a 2.75 Legere reed which I thought would perhaps make a difference from the cane reeds he's been using previously, but they haven't. Mouthpiece is a B45.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-03-23 00:24
A B45 mouthpiece is fairly open and the #2.75 Legere (certainly if that's a European Signature) sounds way to strong for that. As an example I use #3 or a #3.25 on a 1.00mm tip opening (much smaller than the B45 at 1.195mm). For comparison's sake, a decent standard tip opening is 1.03mm for the Vandoren M13. A good jump from there is a Vandoren 5RVLyre 1.09mm.
As much as I LOVE the Legeres, it takes a heap of time, money (trying many different strengths) and good fundamental knowledge to find the right strength. With your interaction limited to the internet, I would ONLY try to suggest cane strength changes.
First off, what was the student using in for a reed prior to the Legere and what was wrong with that? If the student was not manifesting the flatness before, then I'd stick with the ones prior to the Legere and maybe adjust up a little (if that is even called for). Maybe trying a different brand or style within a brand. Vandoren V21s are a bit more firm than the standard Vandoren but also a little warmer and even more forgiving in certain ways. That sort of thing.
.................Paul Aviles
Post Edited (2021-03-23 06:51)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2021-03-23 00:32
First question - is he aware of the flatness on his own, or does he rely on you to tell him he's flat?
Without getting into things you really can't evaluate very well over Zoom:
1. he could try taking a little more mouthpiece. If he's too close to the tip he may not be able to support the reed enough to keep it in tune as he goes higher.
2. he could try a closer-tipped mouthpiece.
3. he can try forming an "eee" vowel with his tongue - this is getting close to where online sound quality can make it hard for you top tell what the result is on the other aspects of his tone than the pitch.
4. he could try a cane reed again. One of the consistent complaints about Legeres is that they are more prone to flatness, especially as you approach the third register.
None of this may be helpful, and it comes back to my first question. If he doesn't hear the intonation problem but is only taking your word that he's flat and your suggestions about what to do to bring the pitch up, getting him to hear the problem will be the first, maybe most difficult step.
Karl
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Author: Ken Lagace
Date: 2021-03-24 18:05
A 'Good Embouchure' Test;
C4 needs to have the altissimo overtones in the sound.
If the C4 is poor, the altissimo won't be there.
Never have a different embouchure for a different register!
Different voicing maybe, but not anything else.
#1 Play the C4 as best as possible, good reed, good mpc etc. etc.
#2 Roll the thumb onto the register key without changing anything else.
#3 Good G5? If not go back to #1, else;
#4 Pop off the left index finger (Not 1/2 hole!) without changing anything else.
#5 Good E6? If not go back to #1, else;
#6 Gently touch the F#/C# key.
#7 Good A7?
Some advanced players can't do this, but when they learn, their playing really improves.
And they don't need a 'harder' reed to play the altissimo.
The softest reed that is comfortable can play the altissimo easily.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2021-03-24 22:43
Try a 5RV Lyre as that will help immensely with the tuning of the high notes.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2021-03-28 17:32
It could be the mouthpiece, or reed, as some suggest but I used to have some students play on tha MP many years ago and never saw that as a problem. Without being there to see and hear the student play I'd suggest it could be a problem with their tongue being too low as they goes up, though I'm not suggesting placing it too high, just not lowering it. Could be the back of their tongue or the front of the tongue, it may take some experimenting, that's what I always did with students that were having tonguing problems. It could also be a problem with their throat, as in voicing like a singer, or air support. Not always a black and white solution.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: kdk
Date: 2021-03-29 00:26
kdk wrote:
> First question - is he aware of the flatness on his own, or
> does he rely on you to tell him he's flat?
> If he doesn't hear the intonation problem but is only
> taking your word that he's flat and your suggestions about what
> to do to bring the pitch up, getting him to hear the problem
> will be the first, maybe most difficult step.
I didn't mean this as a snarky comment. A 14 year old and a more experienced high school or college student are different in what you can say and what they can process and incorporate into their techniques. I've found often when young students (you don't say how old this one is) play consistently flat in the upper range (starting from about ![[A5]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/a5.gif) ), it's because they really just aren't paying attention to it and don't realize how flat their pitch is. Once they begin to (a) be aware of it for themselves and (b) decide that it's something worth correcting, the changes they need to make can be quite small.
Karl
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Author: EbClarinet
Date: 2021-03-29 12:04
Have an over haul one on the clarinet 1st. You're going 2 nee a tighter embouchure and to lip up the notes in those registers. I would suggest a 3.5=4 Vandoren reed and a better mouth piece. Have you tried the Pyne mouth pieces yet? I had this problem on C clarinet until I got a better reed/mout piece combination. I hope this helps.
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/mbtldsongministry/
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