 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Cellomangler
Date: 2021-03-20 02:22
I'm refurbishing an old wood Martin-Freres bass clarinet and it's in great shape mechanically except the bell had a bad dent and the floor peg holder had snapped off and was missing. So I found a good deal on a Kessler bell with floor peg. Just tried it out and the tenon is a perfect fit but... the tone hole is a good deal smaller. Yup... I should have asked for dimensions. So... how bad do you think it would be to implement a smaller size tone hole in the bell? Will the pitch be sharp by a few cents or worse on open tones or could it almost be insignificant? It needs new pads something fierce but yeah, I might be able to get enough notes out and do a test, though in it's present condition, it would not be very "scientific." Go easy on me - I'm not a professional reed player but I am a musician.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2021-03-20 03:37
It depends where the tonehole is and what diameter it is - some may have a smaller diameter tonehole for E/B close to the socket with an in tune but slightly stifled tone, whereas others may have a much larger diameter tonehole nearer the bow and the E/B will still be in tune, but with much better tone quality.
The best thing to do is seal all the toneholes on the instrument except the bell tonehole and the lower speaker vent and check the tuning of low E and upper B as they issue directly from that tonehole, assuming it is a bass built to low Eb (which issues directly from the bell itself). If the upper register B is in tune, then it's all good.
If it happens to be a low E model, then F/C will issue from the bell tonehole as low E will issue directly from the bell.
If it happens to be a low D model, then low Eb will issue from the bell tonehole as low D will issue directly from the bell.
If by some unlikely event it happens to be a low C model, then low C#/Db will issue from the bell tonehole as low C will issue directly from the bell.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Cellomangler
Date: 2021-03-20 05:17
Attachment: thibouville_freres1.jpg (199k)
Attachment: thibouville_freres2.jpg (224k)
Attachment: thibouville_freres3.jpg (264k)
Attachment: thibouville_freres4.jpg (222k)
Thanks Chris... great info there.
My bass clarinet is actually a Thibouville Freres. I'm linking to some photos just in case anyone is interested in the discussion or if it helps clarify the difference in bells. Bottom line is that I may need to get it in playing condition first and then find out how the tuning compares wth the different bells.
I'm including the links in text below:
http://garylphillips.com/thibouville_freres1.jpg
http://garylphillips.com/thibouville_freres2.jpg
http://garylphillips.com/thibouville_freres3.jpg
http://garylphillips.com/thibouville_freres4.jpg
Cheers,
Gary Phillips
Post Edited (2021-03-20 05:19)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2021-03-20 07:12
That bell isn’t in that bad of shape. You could return the new bell and spend $50 on dent removal and $50 on a floor peg kit from Ferrees and it will work just fine. Not only is the tone hole on the new bell much smaller but it’s also lower so it could easily be 20+ cents flat.
-Jdbassplayer
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Cellomangler
Date: 2021-03-20 08:12
JD - thanks for the reply...
Yes... you may be right. I need to weigh that. Here's the thing - the cheapest I was able to find a floor peg with its assembly was $80 online not counting shipping. Then I'd have to solder it or pay to have it soldered (I sweat copper, so pretty sure I could do it). The bell I purchased was not new but same as new and I got it for $120. Granted, if it is wrong for the clarinet then it is wrong period. Considering I'll have to pay return shipping, I'd probably come out ahead if I desoldered the peg assembly and used it on the older bell. I know - that sounds almost sacriligious.
I think to decide on the bell, I'll clean up the instrument just enough to test some pitches. Then I'm going to strip it down for a full refurb. No... I'm no pro, but I'm a serious DIY repair guy and have refurbished 3 pawn shop saxes in the past that I turned for a profit. Neither a pro nor a student is going to want this horn but I'll give it some love as a guitarist who dabbles in wind.
Post Edited (2021-03-20 13:02)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2021-03-20 08:44
Hard to be sure from those photos, but it looks like not only the tone hole is smaller, but it's significantly lower from the bottom of the tenon socket and the socket itself seems longer on the new bell, so it's even farther from it than it might seem to be just from the bottom of the socket. A very rough estimate is that it's about 10mm to 20mm lower (top of the bell socket to top of the tone hole) which is very significant.
Distance from neck front to top of E tone hole taken from a low C bass is approximately 107cm, so it's likely to be in the range of 1% to 2% flatter, with the smaller tone hole making a significant difference to tone too. The effect might be a little different because on a low Eb bass it's where the bore starts to expand.
That bell doesn't look like it's that damaged, probably would work pretty well as is (as long as the tone hole isn't completely warped maybe, though anything is possible to repair really). If you are planning on repairing that clarinet anyway, I would just test both bells once you can.
Remember to also check the low Eb since the bell itself affects it.
For the tone hole check both low E and middle B.
I would probably go with a peg holder for the older bell to not get stuck with an extra useless bell without a peg holder, but moving the holder isn't a bad option either if you don't want to mess with returning and ordering something else, etc.
Post Edited (2021-03-20 09:19)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Cellomangler
Date: 2021-03-20 09:08
Thanks Clarnibass... more good info and advice.
In my naivete I must admit that I was thinking the difference between a C and an Eb bass clarinet was that one had a tone hole in the bell and the other did not. I wasn't even aware mine was an Eb. I've learned a bit more about bass clarinets and in the process, I'm even more determined to get mine up to par. I must say that I could not find a website that really describes these differences in design and range in any meaningful way for the novice.
Post Edited (2021-03-20 10:10)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Cellomangler
Date: 2021-03-20 12:50
And thanks JD for that link to ferreestoolsinc.com
I have placed an order for their bass clarinet floor peg.
Surprising they never came up in any of my Google searches for bells or floor pegs. Cheers.
Post Edited (2021-03-22 03:20)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
