 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2021-03-12 07:06
I tried searching this in the board's history and fingering guides.
When trilling from E4 to F#4 I think its almost easier for met to lift the left pointer key in opposite movement to, with the right pointer finger, playing the chromatic F#4 with the bottom two right hand side keys.
Are that and trilling the left thumb the only two ways of making this trill?
If there any good trill from G#4 to A4 other than a fast left pointer finger?
I'm doing an etude out of Langenus that has these trills in succession.
It is NOT the easiest of measures to play.
Thanks.
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2021-03-12 07:19
E4-F#4: normal E, and trill the 1st two side keys with the rh. Or, get the thumb to work better and trill that.
G#4-A4: normal G#, trill the 3rd rh side key.
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2021-03-12 18:11
Philip Caron wrote:
> E4-F#4: normal E, and trill the 1st two side keys with the rh.
> Or, get the thumb to work better and trill that.
>
> G#4-A4: normal G#, trill the 3rd rh side key.
Phillip, do you find the voicing of the G#4-A4 trill with the 3rd rh side key, as you suggest, to be considerably deficient in sound quality as compared to the sound generated by the conventional fingering the of the A4?
I tried that suggestion before coming here.
I have no illusions that trill fingers are apt to produce notes of less quality than those generated with conventional fingerings; recognizing it as a tradeoff.
Certainly the A4 to B4 rt hand trill would be such an example...
But that said, the G#4-A4 trill you provided, at least on my R13, was really sub par. Maybe it's me and/or my setup.
Thanks.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2021-03-12 18:54
SecondTry wrote:
> Phillip, do you find the voicing of the G#4-A4 trill with the
> 3rd rh side key, as you suggest, to be considerably deficient
> in sound quality as compared to the sound generated by the
> conventional fingering the of the A4?
>
I find that trill's sound quality satisfactory on my Selmer 10G. How does Bb fingered with the A key and the same 3rd (from the bottom) side key sound? It's possible to have some dirt or inadequate pad clearance obstructing the side key hole, but that would also affect the side Bb.
> I have no illusions that trill fingers are apt to produce notes
> of less quality than those generated with conventional
> fingerings; recognizing it as a tradeoff.
Sometimes you're asked to do things in etudes that fall into a class that a good, knowledgeable composer shouldn't ask a clarinet (or any specific instrument) to do in music intended for actual performance. If they do show up in a real piece, you can only do so much to salvage the composer's intent with the best solution you can find. If you're doing a quick embellishment trill, you can probably find a way to voice G#4 so that the trill key result is at least serviceable - doesn't call attention to itself. If it's a sustained G# trill you could consider reaching up with your right hand and use your RH index finger to trill with the regular A key. It depends a lot on what your RH has to do (where it needs to be) right after the trill.
Karl
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Author: Andrez444
Date: 2021-03-12 19:49
Attachment: F6AFF3EF-0D42-4716-A8B7-76EB07D8FD55.jpeg (907k)
An interesting example of these slightly awkward trills occurs towards the final measures of the Arnold Bax Sonata, with G# to A, and F# to G.
These can be executed using the trill fingerings, but the result is neither as clear or as in tune when when attempted with the index finger of the left hand.
I wonder what performers of this piece would generally compromise with
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2021-03-12 23:03
Hi SecondTry. Interesting that on my Bb R13 instrument the G#-A trill suggested sounds reasonably good. So does the A4-B4 trill using the top trill key that you mentioned as sounding also bad. The one I don't care much for is the suggested E-F# trill, where for me that F# is noticeably flat. But I believe the suggestions given are the standard ones, and I'm probably not alone in having used them.
Anyway, generally there are some trill fingerings that produce notes of less quality. Sometimes you can work around issues one way or another (like kdk's suggestion of using the rh index on the lh A key.) For whatever reasons, bad sounding notes for me, including some trill notes, have gradually improved over the years. (Or my hearing is getting worse.) Still, I marvel sometimes to hear recordings of professionals who make "bad" trills sound great. I wonder how much practice they've devoted to trill technique as a separate thing.
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2021-03-13 03:39
It could be something mechanical with the instrument, height of pads on opening, condition of the tone hole, etc. Karl's question about the side Bb and your reply somewhat lessen those concerns. However, the more I amateurishly learn about the clarinet mechanism, the more I'm surprised at how many things can cause problems. How's your throat G#?
Also, not all R13's are created (or set up) equal; they vary widely in quality.
Comparing two in some specific regard may be interesting but not very definitive.
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2021-03-13 06:22
Philip Caron wrote:
> It could be something mechanical with the instrument, height of
> pads on opening, condition of the tone hole, etc. Karl's
> question about the side Bb and your reply somewhat lessen those
> concerns. However, the more I amateurishly learn about the
> clarinet mechanism, the more I'm surprised at how many things
> can cause problems. How's your throat G#?
>
> Also, not all R13's are created (or set up) equal; they vary
> widely in quality.
> Comparing two in some specific regard may be interesting but
> not very definitive.
I'm sorry, I was wrong. If voices well, it's just really sharp.
When I use the key for a better sounding throat Bb it's also sharp but I can bring it down a bit by covering holes with the left hand. Similar fingerings for bringing down the A4 produced this way (while fingering the G#4) don't seem to bring down the pitch.
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