 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: crvsp
Date: 2021-01-29 03:49
Hi all,
On a similar topic to voicing, I've been mystified by how some players are able to do certain exercises such as octave jumps that are slurred or large intervals that go to the throat G. I can't seem to get large interval slurs to open G without the note cracking, even if I adjust my voicing accordingly. Any tips?
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-01-29 06:57
I assume you refer to leaps coming DOWN to the open G or probably any chalumeau note. The problem is that it IS easier to excite the reed (moving up) than it is to de-escalate the vibrations. Personally I've always found it easier to accomplish this with the abdomen but a quick move to a larger air passage makes the air move slower (think of tongue movement from "EEE" to "YAWWW" if you prefer thinking in terms of "voicing."
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: Ken Lagace
Date: 2021-01-29 07:33
Slurs down over the register break are also easier by taking the register off early. With practice you will learn how early to take it off to get the best results.
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2021-01-29 09:05
I just seem to do it automatically, though I'm not always as successful as I would like. For me, a lot depends on the reed.
I like Paul's explanation.
Ken's register key idea is also interesting, and maybe something I do subconsciously?
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-01-29 14:33
Never tried the "early register departure." Sounds interesting. I'm in the middle of move, but cannot wait to try that!
That would function like the "flick key" on bassoon.........yes?
..............Paul Aviles
Post Edited (2021-01-29 17:50)
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Author: crvsp
Date: 2021-01-29 20:26
Yes, the register key trick is something I do. Even so (and looking in the mirror while I do it!) the note just seems to want to go to the overtone rather than to the G.
As for Paul's explanation, I will have to try experimenting with voicing more. I assumed the "EEE" and "YAWW" voicings would be the opposite; since the upper register requires the back of the tongue to open up more. But I'll try both.
Thanks for the responses!
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Author: kdk
Date: 2021-01-29 21:59
A few thoughts, not meant necessarily to be prescriptive, just perhaps to broaden the conversation:
I was taught by more than one of my teachers, if a downward slur wasn't working, to brush the reed lightly with my tongue, essentially to decelerate its vibration to facilitate the lower frequency. You're basically fighting the reed's (and the air column's) inertia.
Changes in "voicing" (soft palate position) may help, changes in air pressure may help as well, but in the end one way or another you have to get the reed to slow down more or less instantaneously.
I do find that the reed's responsiveness makes a big difference in managing any descending interval. Some players (you may not be one of them) try to play on every reed in a box, adjusting whichever ones they can and putting up with whatever response problems remain ("practice reeds" vs "performance reeds"). So I guess one hint might be, don't expect unbalanced or stuffy reeds to make clean interval jumps. Those reeds respond too slowly. Eventually the throat G will appear, but not quickly enough in a musical context.
I wonder, too, what you mean by "large interval" jumps. Some intervals, because of the acoustics involved, are harder to do cleanly than others. Some should be fairly easy. Octaves, for example, are generally easier than twelfths. I'm not sure why slurs to G would be harder than to A, F or E or notes lower in the chalumeau register. Do you have a particular context in mind for your question?
Karl
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Author: crvsp
Date: 2021-01-29 22:52
Hi Karl,
My question was indeed a little broad; my personal problem intervals are any note between clarion G and altissimo G slurred downwards to an open G or lower.
Anything above the throat G is easy enough to slur to- I can just vent those. But for some reason my throat G- even with vent- still tends to want to jump to the overtone. I like the suggestion of "tonguing" the interval, but that too is something I'll have to experiment with; I'll need to work on super light tonguing so as to make it sound like a slur.
I mainly started this topic because I know some players who can do these kinds of intervals with ease, I'm just not sure how they do it. I believe I mentioned this in the last post, but Nicholas Baldeyrou has a few video with similar intervals or jumps where he executes them flawlessly (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vmO5NY8L_0&ab_channel=NicolasBaldeyrou) or (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UcA4PJ7urA&ab_channel=NicolasBaldeyrou)
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2021-01-29 23:39
crvsp, Am I correct in assuming it takes a bit of work on timing if you release the register key before you want the slur down to occur?
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
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Author: crvsp
Date: 2021-01-30 00:59
Yes; this is work that I have done. But I came to the conclusion that the register key release is not the sole reason for my troubles, largely because I'm able to play the throat G and then without adding any keys/fingers, leaping to the overtone.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2021-01-30 01:24
crvsp wrote:
> Yes; this is work that I have done. But I came to the
> conclusion that the register key release is not the sole reason
> for my troubles, largely because I'm able to play the throat G
> and then without adding any keys/fingers, leaping to the
> overtone.
I'm confused. I thought you were asking about descending _from_ high notes _to_ throat G. This post sounds like G itself is simply unstable. That's a whole other issue.
Karl
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2021-01-30 02:31
I am able to overblow G and probably any low register note to get the clarion and imagine most people can. Not sure how this fits into it all. I have used "no fingers" high D above the staff by overblowing open G, such as in odd tremolos.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
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Author: brycon
Date: 2021-01-30 02:39
Leaps downward--especially moving through different registers--can be difficult. I'd ignore Paul's voicing suggestion above. The upper register tends to be more focused; brilliant; and, all things equal, higher in pitch than the throat tones. If you exaggeratedly relax the voicing, then, like Paul recommends, you'll have a saggy and tubby G that doesn't sound anything like the clarion register. The register-key thing will also alter the pitch (especially in the upper clarion) and will slow you down in terms of technical facility.
You could be experiencing difficulty with downward leaps for a number of reasons. The best thing to do is check with a teacher whom you trust and who knows your playing.
Some things that might not fix the problem but might help you get on the right track:
1.) Try slowly singing the problematic intervals, with the correct pitches. Can you make the upper and lower pitches sound the same in terms of timbre? Can you make the connection smooth and elegant (if smooth and elegant is what you're going for, of course)? When you can do these things at a level that satisfies you, take note of what your air and support system are doing. Then play the same interval on the clarinet and try to match the sound of your playing to your singing. (I say "sound" because when we sing, we often manipulate our lips, tongue, oral cavity, etc. in a way that might not work as well on the clarinet.)
2.) If the throat-tone G goes into a higher partial when you leap down to it, rather than stopping, hold out the higher-register D squeak and then purposively drop the pitch back to the throat-tone G without stopping the sound. Take note of what you needed to do physically to make the G come out--probably some combination of several small things with your embouchure, air, voicing, etc. Over time, you'll build up the muscle memory of what you need to do to make G come out instead of the higher partial.
3.) If downward leaps are a problem for you, work on them on a daily basis. Get some exercises from your teacher that are tailored to your playing and build downward-interval practice into your regimen.
Post Edited (2021-01-30 02:49)
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Author: Alexis
Date: 2021-01-30 15:36
It’s quite hard to give concrete advice. It sounds a bit like you something is making you a bit less flexible in what you can do generally.
Rather than focussing on ‘voicing’ which I find is a bit nebulous (and open to mis interpretation and over doing it - really quite small adjustments), consider blowing a little less for the lower note. This is sort of in line with what Karl said - decelerating the vibration of the reed. The tonguing will work as well, although I think it should be possible without (it is for me).
But finding a bit more flexibility in general - maybe different reed (not necessarily different strength just different response) less rigid embouchure for example - may help solve the problem.
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