 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: lewan
Date: 2013-06-05 16:45
Hi Everyone,
I'm looking for your opinions on the pitch difference between the regular Vandoren mouthpieces (pitched at 442) and the profile 88 (pitched at 440). Is there a noticeable difference? Also, has anyone been able get the M15 Series 13 profile 88 mouthpiece recently? I have in the past but lately can not find them.
Thanks,
LuAnn
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Author: kdk
Date: 2013-06-05 17:22
I'm not sure what you're asking. The difference in pitch between A=440 and 442 is noticeable. The issue is partly what pitch level you need for most of your playing. I think both Series 13 and Traditional Vandoren models are available as Profile 88, which refers to the external shape of the beak (it's thinner - flatter). There are internal design differences between the Series 13 and Traditional mouthpieces (regardless of beak style) that affect their native sound quality as well as the pitch.
I haven't tried to get an M15 recently (Series 13 or Traditional) for a couple of years, although I think a student recently bought one online - could have been old stock).
Karl
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Author: Joe Bloke
Date: 2013-06-05 19:12
It's the "13 Series" that is pitched in A=440.
The rest of the Vandoren line (including many "Profile 88" mouthpieces) are: A=442.
The M15, 13 Series, Profile 88, is shown on Vandoren's website as model "CM4178" and still in production. If you can't find it, call one of the big online suppliers. (FYI: WWBW might still be offering a discount on all Vandoren products).
Post Edited (2013-06-05 19:18)
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Author: lewan
Date: 2013-06-05 19:52
Thanks much for the feedback. I have 3 traditionals and 2 Series 13 profile 88 that I've been comparing back to back and haven't found much pitch difference between them. I have tried WWBW for the combo of series 13 and profile 88 but they do not stock it. I'll give some other suppliers a try. Thanks again!
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Author: kdk
Date: 2013-06-05 20:48
AFAIK, *all* Series 13 (A=440) Vandorens are Profile 88. The Traditional series (A=442) is available with either Profile 88 or a traditional beak (a little higher, rounder). The beak shape is only a matter of comfort in the mouth and doesn't reflect any internal difference.
Karl
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Author: curlyev
Date: 2013-06-05 21:24
LuAnn, I have seen it available on that auction site recently.
If you have a horn that plays extremely flat, you can sometimes put on a 442 mouthpiece and get a 440 sound out of the horn, but I'd try it first. I only mention it because it just so happened to work for me! Our band still tunes to 440.
Clarinet: Wooden Bundy 1950s
Mthpc: WW Co. B6 refaced by Kurtzweil
Lig: Various Rovners
Barrel/Bell: Backun
Reeds: Legere 3.75
OKC Symphonic Band (just started this summer)
*playing 22 years (with a 5 year hiatus) and counting*
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Author: Ed
Date: 2013-06-06 00:54
Often the 13 series can be a bit flat in the throat tones.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2013-06-06 01:24
Ed's kinda hit on the issue here. No mouthpiece in and of itself plays a concert A=440. This is just a bit of marketing on Vandoren's part to imply that one version is more compatible with American pitch standards (and more specifically, American players of R13 clarinets).
The only thing one can say for sure is that the 13 Series generates a slightly lower tone. This, as I have said before, causes (in my opinion) too many "internal pitch" problems, such as the effect to which Ed refers. If your throat notes get lower more than the notes of the full length of the horn, how do you correct this? And yes, this is exactly what the lower mouthpieces do.
There is a market out there for this product, just not with me.
.......................Paul Aviles
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Author: Bob Barnhart ★2017
Date: 2013-06-06 02:02
Over the years, I've played the VD B45, M13Lyre, M30(13), B46, B40(13) Lyre and B40(13). Of the 13-series I have played, most had acceptable intonation, although I do have to be careful with the M30(13) as it can be a bit too low depending on the reed and temperature. I prefer the 13-series because I feel they definitely sound better than their "standard" counterparts (i.e., rounder/smoother sound), owing perhaps to internal design differences as suggested above.
I recently tried a Master's CL5 and it was definitely higher in pitch than my 13-series mouthpieces. This helped in the low-register (on my Yamaha CSGs) but was more of a problem everywhere else.
I've tried a lot of VDs but for orchestral work, the B40(13) (with a #3 reed) gives me a big, round, projecting sound, solid/dependable response that facilitates articulation and spot-on intonation. For chamber music and backup, I also carry a B40(13) Lyre, which gives similar performance but with a more compact/covered sound.
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2013-06-06 10:22
Bob,
To make the CL5 work at 440 you need to get the tuning rings that Vandoren supply for the Masters mouthpieces. I use the CL5 now and it works great at 440 on my Moba with a 66 barrel. I use the thicker tuning ring of the two.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: david sherr
Date: 2020-12-30 00:50
My profile 88 B40 and my regular one sound the same to me but the regular one records great and the profile 88 is all 12th and almost no fundamental. I learned the hard way, but I learned.
http://www.belairjazz.org
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