 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Klarnt
Date: 2020-12-04 08:22
So what makes some notes more free blowing than others? For example, my loudest/accepting of my air notes are high Clarion C, low Clarion C#, and low Clarion Eb (the latter two are like this on my Bass Clarinet as well). Low Clarion C and B are a close second.
What I find strange is that the Chalumeau equivalents low F# and Gb are nearly as free blowing while throat tone F is not like its high C equivalent. And low F and E are not as free blowing as their Clarion equivalents either (they also go flat a lot easier).
Chalumeau G and Clarion D are kind of stuffy/airy notes (as well as quiet).
Why are notes like C# airy but its G# equivalent is not as airy? What makes Chalumeau C♮ feel 'normal' but Clarion G♮ 'restrictive'?
The throat tones (with exception of the register key fingered Bb) are pretty free blowing for me. I think that's because of the short distance of the notes. Is that correct? [I'm actually second guessing that since the reason why throat tone Bb is so airy is because the path is too short. Hm....]
These different behaviors between the Clarion and Chalumeau equivalents intrigue me. Some share the same behavior while others don't. What causes this?
I understand that these are probably specific to my instruments, but maybe it applies to others? I am a Clarinet player who likes (if not obsessed with) playing loud.
Post Edited (2020-12-04 08:25)
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2020-12-04 09:00
My guess is you are right in that it is something specific to your instrument. Not sure what you mean by free blowing. All notes should come out with ease. OTOH, notes tend to vary in timbre. That is for example, bottom line Eb to me sounds very mellow and full while bottom space F# is more "pointed" and begs to resolve to open G. The alternate F + side key fingering for F# is more mellow than the regular fingering. I have found timbres of certain notes to be similar regardless of the instrument you're using. I also have played on instruments in need of minimal repair due to stuffiness on some notes.
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Post Edited (2020-12-04 09:01)
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Author: mamanvatsa
Date: 2020-12-04 13:23
That's because the modern clarinet was constructed so, that for every note you need a different air and embouchure. Very important is the place and length of the register tube, for we can see a pattern where most companies place it random (might vary from 15-20 mm down the body rim, kinda Russian roulette). There is no way that chalumeau notes are equal in tone or frequency to clarion and altisimo if you have a random placed register valve. Of course, this alone can't go without tone holes size, for this shifts both intonation and frequencies - 2 basic things that define how the ear perceives a tone. A major problem of the modern Boehm clarinet is that low joint tone holes are a little bigger than necessary, which makes chalumeau sharp, clarion - flat, and altisimo even flatter. That's because they only thought about intonation, but forgot the air & frequency factor, which is first thing to decide a tone's perception. I think this all comes from an asumption, that the Boehm system was originally a full Boehm (about 3,5-4cm longer). They might have simply "cut" it above the Eb hole, but changed no other specs, hence the troubles we all face today, and have to change barrels, mouthpieces, reeds, etc. If you want to play your clarinet with the same air and embouchure, it needs to be hand-tuned (body, barrel, bell, tone holes), because it is often a matter of 0.1mm. But you should go to someone who knows what to do. And last, but not least - keys pad height. It decides very much air flow, resistance and dynamics. Best regards and indulge!
Post Edited (2020-12-04 16:05)
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2020-12-04 14:08
Mamanvatsa can you provide examples of your claim of fact that the Boehm System was originally full Boehm? From my understanding there are no full Boehm examples prior to 1890s. The Boehm System was devised in around 1839/40. Thanks
Peter Cigleris
Post Edited (2020-12-04 14:58)
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Author: mamanvatsa
Date: 2020-12-04 14:19
Peter Cigleris, actually no, it's just an asumption. But that's not the point, rather shift of focus from the major problems, which I think depicted in details above. I edited the word 'fact' with 'asumption' for your sake. Cheers!
Post Edited (2020-12-04 16:08)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2020-12-04 18:37
mamanvatsa wrote:
> ...Very important is the place and length of the register tube, for we
> can see a pattern where most companies place it random (might
> vary from 15-20 mm down the body rim, kinda Russian roulette).
I'm not sure if you're saying that every Boehm clarinet has been designed with a different register tube placement or that the instrument designers just pick a spot for it randomly (by throwing a dart?).
> There is no way that chalumeau notes are equal in tone or
> frequency to clarion and altisimo if you have a random placed
> register valve.
There's no way the clarion and altissimo notes are equal in tone or frequency to the chalumeau notes regardless of the register tube's placement. What did you actually mean by this?
> A major
> problem of the modern Boehm clarinet is that low joint tone
> holes are a little bigger than necessary, which makes chalumeau
> sharp, clarion - flat, and altisimo even flatter. That's
> because they only thought about intonation, but forgot the air
> & frequency factor, which is first thing to decide a tone's
> perception.
Why, if "they only thought about intonation," are the registers so out of tune with each other?
I guess this all begs the question of whether non-Boehm systems behave differently in this respect. I don't have any experience playing anything except Boehm clarinets - mostly Buffet R-13 and Selmer 10G. I have no experience playing any German system clarinets. If you have (or for anyone else who has experience across fingering systems), are they more consistent in their response over the clarinet's entire compass? Are their register tubes all placed in the same spot?
Karl
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2020-12-04 19:09
Klarnt wrote:
> So what makes some notes more free blowing than others? For
> example, ...
>
> I understand that these are probably specific to my
> instruments, but maybe it applies to others? I am a Clarinet
> player who likes (if not obsessed with) playing loud.
>
I think most of the specific examples you've asked about are vulnerabilities on all Boehm clarinets (I don't know about other systems), although some instrument designers manage to overcome them better than others, or choose differently when a compromise is needed between two inherent problems. So each clarinet's scale is slightly different depending on what design choices were made. Sometimes the problems are caused by the mechanics of making the instrument - the ways the cutting tools have to do their work. The mechanical issues recede as the technology improves. The acoustical ones and their solutions are part of the differences among the myriad brands and models on today's clarinet market.
Often a stuffy or out-of-tune note can be hand adjusted by a skilled repairer. Sometimes it involves tone hole size or the way the edge of the hole is shaped leaving the bore (undercutting). Sometimes the cause is the pad clearance above a hole. Sometimes the barrel or mouthpiece bore can be an influence.
Often, a note's timbre or resistance is exaggerated by the mouthpiece and reed combination you use. A very resistant setup or even a badly unbalanced reed can add to an inherent resistance in a note so a resistant note won't blend with the ones around it that are inherently less resistant. You can overcome this by choosing a responsive setup. You should be able to maintain a steady embouchure and air movement without changes in timbre from one note to the next. Then, if specific notes just won't line up, you can have a skilled repairer see what he can do to improve them.
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-12-04 19:49
Is it possible that what is being said about Boehm is in relation to a really good German system horn such as a Wurlitzer 100c? Not many around this side of the pond would even have tried one but since I had played them exclusively for a twelve year period I can say without hesitation that I AGREE with the notion that in comparison Boehm is rather wonky in constancy.
The Wurlitzer 100Cs were simply the most consistent clarinet in tone, resistance and resonance from the very bottom to the highest altissimo of anything I had ever played. They come with their own issues (in a nutshell an unwavering sound......so you really have to love it, and tendency to be "smaller" than Boehm) but if you can live with those, there's simply no better horn.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2020-12-04 20:41
Every note is different. Factors are:
Reed/mouthpiece
Tone hole size
Placement of tone hole
Neighboring tone holes/pads
Length of air column
“Forked” fingerings
Place in harmonic series
Pad height
Spacial relationship to ears
Relation to bell or throat
The register key is in the wrong place, so it can double as Bb
Theoretically the register key should move with every note (saxophones have two holes, some oboes have 3, flutes use open finger holes for some notes).
Most notes are a compromise between what would be ideal for that note and how it affects everything else, especially the other registers. Throat F is different from high C because C is overblown, and the horn is optimized for overblowing (and the register key is open). F on the other hand seems to be more in tune, IMO. If you look at each note, and what pads are open (or near it) you’ll understand.
This weirdness makes an instrument harder to play, but it also seems to impart desirable character to the overall sound of the horn. IMO french clarinets have more character than german ones, but german ones are more uniform (judging by what I hear). My Yamaha recorder is easy to play and uniform but has no character, my Zen-On has loads of complex character but its also a royal pain.
- Matthew Simington
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Author: mamanvatsa
Date: 2020-12-04 22:58
Kdk, thanks for quoting me in details, appreciate it! Of course, this was an overexpression of my idea, I really don't think they throw dice to decide the register tube placement, only extract that impression from the sound the instruments deliver. A proper register tube placement is, let's say, where all tones throughout all registers are with good intonation, which is a quite relative thing to different ears. As I already mentioned intonation is not a sole thing, but goes together with overtones, and they are defined by also placement and size. I hope you are well familiar that all clarinets initiate from the chaleumau, which later evolved into the 'historical' (period) clarinet, whereas finger holes are smaller (but same size) and about equally outstanding from each other. Also placed more upwise on the body, which is very close to German system fingering, except that on the latest sound comes out of 4-5 or more holes for each hand (including padded holes) instead of 3. Same is with Boehm system, but with the only difference the padded holes are upwise the finger holes, as opposed to German system. This makes the whole Boehm fingering way lowered than historical and German clarinets, which is already an issue. And, yes, I would say they both sound more consistant in sound, which is not new. In this respect, it is very difficult to balance a Boehm clarinet, since it is a kind of deviation from the main concept of sound, which is a whole different chapter of acoustics. So, a compromise is founding the best compensatory (cheating) specs in order to balance it. You might try to listen to some comparison between 'same piece' German and Boehm music, as well as on historical instruments. I hope you are also familiar that Boehm system clarinets are "forbidden" (let's say not accepted) in present German language countries' classical orchestras, of course for the sake of sound quality, intonation and consistancy, not out of patriotic feelings. I also hope this will all clear it up for you. Best regards!
Post Edited (2020-12-05 01:26)
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