Advertising and Web Hosting on Woodwind.Org!

Woodwind.OrgThe Clarinet BBoardThe C4 standard

 
  BBoard Equipment Study Resources Music General    
 
 New Topic  |  Go to Top  |  Go to Topic  |  Search  |  Help/Rules  |  Smileys/Notes  |  Log In   Newer Topic  |  Older Topic 
 Charlie Parker articulation
Author: Liquorice 
Date:   2020-11-05 15:05

Here's a rather entertaining video explaining how Charlie Parker did ghost tonguing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGZkf1V6iHQ

Do jazz clarinet players use this same technique (using part of the tongue on one side of the reed) ? Can anybody post some good audio examples/links?

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Charlie Parker articulation
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2020-11-05 15:35

Pete Fountain did this ALL the time.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VsK9N5Z7D0


The beginning of the each piece he plays is riddled with this..........but as you listen you'll hear that's just how how he plays most things.



Years ago on this thread I said the half tonguing was what was happening and someone countered that it must just be a llght tonguing on the beginning of the note.


vindication





...............Paul Aviles



Reply To Message
 
 Re : Charlie Parker articulation
Author: seabreeze 
Date:   2020-11-05 18:40

Shengwen Wu in her dissertation on Pete Fountain's style includes a section on ghost tonguing with transcribed excerpts from his recordings to illustrated the technique. (Thanks to Andy Whiteford for bringing this dissertation to our attention).

See pages 12-15 here:

https://repository.asu.edu/items/53907

One of the reasons Fountain preferred the crystal O'Brien mouthpiece he got from Irving Fazola was that it made it easier to ghost tongue and "diddle-diddle" tongue.



Post Edited (2020-11-05 19:53)

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Charlie Parker articulation
Author: Liquorice 
Date:   2020-11-05 19:12

Nice dissertation! Thanks.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Charlie Parker articulation
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2020-11-05 19:20

Yes, thanks!


Once downloaded you'll see under "articulation" page 12 that the author gets into various methods. On page 14 there is the direct reference to "dood-en" tonguing as mentioned in the video.



Personally after all the rhetoric, I think the young sax player lays it all out MUCH clearer.





..............Paul Aviles



Reply To Message
 
 Re: Charlie Parker articulation
Author: seabreeze 
Date:   2020-11-05 19:46

Saxlogic is one of the best channels on YouTube for discussing saxophone style.
But style is a very personal matter and techniques that fit into one player's style might clash with another's. One example would be trumpet lip trills. Miles Davis hardly ever used them, so they are not essential to jazz trumpet. Phil Woods was a devotee of Charlie Parker's style and could zip off any Parker improvisation letter perfect if he wanted to (including the Parker with strings pieces) but his signature alto sax style was distinctly different from Parker's even in articulation. On the clarinet, Woods had still another style, lighter and more lyrical, with its own articulation patterns, and not much use of ghost tonguing.

Listen to Days of Wine and Roses:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_rWvNd-2Gc.

This has a wonderful groove and lilt to it and swings just as much as Fountain, yet the articulation (and vibrato) patterns are very different. So also is the rhythmic, melodic and chordal conception, which draws on Latin American and modern jazz structures Fountain either didn't know or avoided. Bottom line: you can phrase jazz in almost unlimited numbers of ways and many different articulation styles.



Post Edited (2020-11-05 22:20)

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Charlie Parker articulation
Author: crvsp 
Date:   2020-11-05 19:49

That is the idea; using the tongue to mute the reed. Personally, I use very little tongue on the side of the reed to get a ghost note effect. Hope that helps

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Charlie Parker articulation
Author: Liquorice 
Date:   2020-11-05 22:37

I love Phil Woods's clarinet playing. So smooth and tasty! Thanks for this link :-)

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Charlie Parker articulation
Author: Arnoldstang 
Date:   2020-11-06 04:48

Not quite sure how the muted effect adds an accent. With a steam of eighth notes I would assume you want a slight emphasis on 2nd, 4th, 6 th notes.

Freelance woodwind performer

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Charlie Parker articulation
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2020-11-06 05:50

As explained in the video (really a good, solid resource!) the ghost note is the note PRIOR to the emphasis. Just like any other dynamic situation, you create louder by making other things around it......softer.






.....................Paul Aviles



Reply To Message
 
 Re: Charlie Parker articulation
Author: Arnoldstang 
Date:   2020-11-06 08:58

So the ghost note is on the beat as I stated?

Freelance woodwind performer

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Charlie Parker articulation
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2020-11-06 13:38

BUT.............


the emphasis (in jazz) is on the OFF BEAT.






................Paul Aviles



Reply To Message
 
 Re: Charlie Parker articulation
Author: Arnoldstang 
Date:   2020-11-06 18:29

It’s a bit confusing. Placing the tongue on the reed for every second note in a stream of eighths is at once muting the note and simultaneously emphasizing it naturally. When tempos are fast these eighth notes are pretty quick so this technique is good for bebop.

Freelance woodwind performer

Post Edited (2020-11-06 18:37)

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Charlie Parker articulation
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2020-11-06 18:46

I must assume that you have not watched the 11 minute Saxologic video posted above.




But if you'd EVER heard Pete Fountain play (also posted above) you hear many moments of a repeated note that sound both slightly covered and then immediately uncovered (almost like a trumpet player using a hat mute).



We are only putting forth HOW that is done, not whether it is standard, classical methodology.


It is harder to pick this differential out of the Charlie Parker example on both the Saxologic video and actual Charlie Parker playing...........but the difference in the overall style WITH and WITHOUT ghost tonguing should be obvious.



Not to confuse this too much, there is also a technique where you play a repeated note with every other note using the technique of opening up vent keys that only slightly change the quality and intonation of that note............similar sound.........similar use.




Though as a classical clarinet player I have never had to incorporate this into my technique, it is nice though to know how it is done.





...............Paul Aviles



Reply To Message
 
 Re: Charlie Parker articulation
Author: Arnoldstang 
Date:   2020-11-06 20:24

It is similar to doo wah mute effect on the trumpet. The effect is achieved by the technique generally starting on the second eighth.

Freelance woodwind performer

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Charlie Parker articulation
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2020-11-06 20:37

Yes, precisely!





............Paul Aviles



Reply To Message
 
 Re: Charlie Parker articulation
Author: Liquorice 
Date:   2020-11-07 03:39

Arnoldstang: it wouldn't be confusing if you watched the video in the original post. The guy lays it out step by step and explains it all very well.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Charlie Parker articulation
Author: Arnoldstang 
Date:   2020-11-08 08:14

I didn’t understand his video on the first listening. He doesn’t mention the first note. So air attack on the first eighth then Doo on the second and “n”on the third. Doo on the 4 th etc. Now I think I understand. It all go past very quickly which is part of bebop.

Freelance woodwind performer

Post Edited (2020-11-08 08:36)

Reply To Message
 Avail. Forums  |  Threaded View   Newer Topic  |  Older Topic 


 Avail. Forums  |  Need a Login? Register Here 
 User Login
 User Name:
 Password:
 Remember my login:
   
 Forgot Your Password?
Enter your email address or user name below and a new password will be sent to the email address associated with your profile.
Search Woodwind.Org

Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale

The Clarinet Pages
is sponsored by:

For Sale
Put your ads for items you'd like to sell here. Free! Please, no more than two at a time - ads removed after two weeks.

Mouthpieces & Barrels
Fine makers of mouthpieces and barrels, from wood to crystal to hard rubber and plastic

Events
Major events especially for clarinetists

Music & Books
CDs, Sheet Music, and some of the greatest reference books ever written!

Reeds
Great reeds available from around the world

Accessories
Accessories that every clarinetist needs - reed makers and shapers, ligatures, greases, oils, and preservatives ... and more!

Instruments
Retailers and manufacturers of clarinets, both modern and early replica

Service
Instrument repairs, restorations, adjustments, and overhauls.

Miscellaneous
Services and products too varied to categorize! Repair, recording, news

 
     Copyright © Woodwind.Org, Inc. All Rights Reserved    Privacy Policy    Contact charette@woodwind.org