 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: EricBlack
Date: 2020-01-31 04:48
In the last month or so I’ve seen many announcements for new synthetic reeds.
There are two new cuts from Silverstein, the Primo and Vivace. At Namm, D’Addario unveiled the Venn reed and Maxton unveiled the “pulse” a carbon synthetic reed. If anyone has had the opportunity to try any of the above, can you offer some thoughts? Thanks!
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2020-01-31 10:54
I tried the carbon reed at NAMM. It played ok for me, but I'm still not a fan of synthetics. Someday someone will make one that truly is as good as a good cane reed (for me), but the best any have been so far is serviceable.
The carbon reed seemed quite resistant even when not too hard. The sound was decent but it felt like driving a tank. Wasn't any better on their mouthpieces. $30 each and no American distributor yet.
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2020-02-02 18:49
Tried the Bravo reeds at 3 1/2 strength.
I don't see how they can even call these things reeds. They barely vibrated at all.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
3D printed mouthpieces, barrels,and bells
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Author: MarkS
Date: 2020-02-02 23:55
I was hoping Walter would comment on the Silverstein Ambipoly reeds, since I am using them on his Virtuoso mouthpiece (medium open). I was very happy using cane on the mouthpiece, but then tried Legere European cut (3.5 and 3.75). The harder reed worked pretty well but I was not happy with the tone for certain notes.
About 6 months ago, I tried the ambipoly in strength 4. For me, I was happy with the tone across the full range. Also, it allowed me more flexibility to adjust the resistance by moving the reed up or down on the mpc than for the Legere. The only real negative I experienced was that after about 45 minutes of playing, the sound became kind of buzzy on the notes below C4. It made me wonder if the reeds were getting water logged. (They are advertised as absorbing water.)
A month ago I decided to reduce the reed strength by 0.25, so now I am playing 3.5+. I like these even better than the 4's. I can get good tone with less effort. Surprisingly, I have been able to play straight for 1.5 hours without noticing the buzziness. Intonation is fine up to altissimo B-flat on my Buffet Festival. Only recently have I tried to extend my range beyond this point. I am able to reach C7 with the 3.5+, but not yet as confidently as I would like.
I am curious about the new cuts (Primo and Vivace) for the ambipoly reeds, but might wait until they are available on Amazon. As far as I can tell, they are only at Silverstein Works right now.
--Mark
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Author: EricBlack
Date: 2020-10-02 19:47
I asked this question at the beginning of the year and while I’m thankful for the people who took the time to respond above, I was surprised by the lack of opinions on all these new reeds. Like Mark, I was curious about Silverstein’s other offerings, so I decided to make a review of their new 2021 cuts. To shave some time off of an already long video I didn’t include everything someone might possibly want to know, so if you have any questions feel free to ask and I will be happy to answer them!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCV2TehBr7U
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Author: rtaylor
Date: 2020-10-02 20:33
Nice job on the review Eric!
I tried the original Silverstein Alta syn reeds for their subscription promotion last year. I wasn't a fan of their original offering using an original Playeasy B2 mouthpiece. I haven't had a chance to try these new models yet.
Cheers,
Robert
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Author: EricBlack
Date: 2020-10-02 22:55
Thanks Robert! It seems that there were some pretty drastic revisions between the original B2 and the Nommos B2, if you do end up trying it with these newer reeds I would be curious to hear your updated opinion! I liked the sound from the original B2, but the copies I tried unfortunately had too many intonation issues to make the switch seem worthwhile.
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2020-10-27 19:26
Hi Eric:
I really enjoyed your Youtube review. I thought you did the best job possible at being objective with your findings in an area of life that's otherwise highly subjective--and that's hard to do.
With this said, and apologies if this has come up before, in my own experiences with Legere reeds (both European Signature and Soprano Sax), otherwise played on an M15 mouthpiece and 1960's R13 B-flat (recognizing though that the greatest variable here is me) my first issue has been keeping from going flat in pitch.
While it doesn't sound like you shared such experiences, for those who have, and have tried the Silverstein Ambipoly lineup, I was wondering if you experienced better intonation with Silverstein's offerings.
Thanks.
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Author: MarkS
Date: 2020-10-28 00:33
I am responding to EricBlack and SecondTry.
I used Legere EC with a Grabner Virtuoso mpc on both my Festival B-flat and R13 A clarinets. At first I tended to play flat on some notes (e.g., throat tones). However, after about two months, most of the issue had gone away. Others (such as Michelle Anderson) have made similar observations.
Last year, I switched to the original Silverstein ambipoly reeds, and liked them better than the Legere. (See my earlier posts for details.) Early this year, I switched to the new Primo cut reeds. I ordered both Primo and Vivace cut reeds from Silverstein (strength 4). I liked the Primo better than the originals, but my original reaction to the Vivace for classical music was negative, though it seemed that they may be well suited for jazz. I tried the Vivace only briefly before sending it back. None of the ambipoly reeds gave me problems with intonation--even from the start. However, it is possible that my embouchure had adapted to the synthetic reeds while playing Legere, and that may have carried over to the Silverstein reeds. Don't know.
I found Eric's video interesting. In particular, he mentions some issues with moisture collecting on the underside of the ambipoly reeds. I had experienced some issues with buzziness on low notes after playing for about 45 minutes. After watching Eric's video, I am wondering if the buzziness is caused by the moisture that he noticed. I have started wiping the underside off when I notice the droplets through the (translucent) reeds, and this seems to eliminate the buzziness. Not enough data yet to be sure.
Mark
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2020-10-28 02:03
Thanks Mark.
Maybe, in the way we all learn to quickly adjust to changes in how our instrument responds from session to session, or even inter-session as our reed, exhaustion or what not affects us, that you have incorporated adaptive strategies into your play, even at a less than conscience level unless you really think about it, to accommodate to these Legere nuances.....or not! : - )
Your experiences and insights have made me think about giving my Legere's more of a try as it regards intonation improvements with play and time, before I even delve into the Silverstein offerings.
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Author: EricBlack
Date: 2020-10-29 08:06
Hey SecondTry,
That's a good question! I thought about talking about it in the video, but it was already getting long so I had to cut some stuff. I tested this out a little bit with the Playnick Nommos B2, one of the Silverstein reeds and a smattering of different cane reeds. In general the Cane reeds played 5-10 cents sharper than their Silverstein counterpart. However, I believe the Nommos B2 was probably designed to compensate for this. The Silverstein played pretty much smack-dab in tune throughout the registers. Thus, in this case I didn't really mind the pitch difference.
That being said, I have also had similar experiences to yourself and others in the past; Legere's play slightly flatter than cane reeds. I spent quite a bit of time trying to make them work with my equipment in grad school. As Mark said, the issue improved over time, your embouchure does adjust, however in my case, even with the adjustment I still found that I was using more pressure than I would like to get certain notes up to pitch. For reference I was playing on a 13 series BD5, a mouthpiece known for already playing on the low side, so I am pretty confident that had I simply switched to a 442 version of the mouthpiece, it would no longer have been an issue. Alas, I was very fond of that particular copy and didn't want to switch.
Ultimately I think for anyone suffering this problem, the best course of action is to either buy a higher pitched version of the mouthpiece they are using, or a mouthpiece specifically designed to play with plastic reeds. A shorter barrel is always a possibility as well, but having a mouthpiece specifically designed for the use of plastic reeds is a real game changer in regards to their playability.
A quick note to Mark! I'm still really not sure what causes the buzziness. And I don't think I was very clear in the video, but I believed it at the time to originate from condensation collecting on the baffle of the mouthpiece. Swabbing the mouthpiece always seemed to temporarily remove the buzzing. That being said, it could just as easily be moisture from the underside of the reed or a combination of the two. Or something else entirely for that matter! Let me know if you think of anything else that could be causing it!
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Author: Jarmo Hyvakko
Date: 2020-12-17 15:47
I have tried both the primo and vivace reed. I used a Nommos M mouthpiece, which i find better sounding than B2 and a 4,0 reed from both reeds. I usually play legere european signature, so i am deeply in syntethic reeds.
I wetted and played in them according to the instructions. 4,0 reed felt slightly harder than legere's 4,0 so i sent back the 4,0+ reeds unopened.
Vivace produces a very vibrant sound, some would call it buzzy and especially in the lower register i found it quite difficult to articulate cleanly because the articulation even emphasizes the buzziness side of the sound. Thus it has many of the qualities that are challenging to avoid also in cane reeds. The crucial C7 i found a very complicated way to somehow produce, but that was very difficult as it is with cane reeds too.
Primo has a darker, more covered sound but it is also heavier to play than vivace. The C7 problem is there too.
In comparison to legere european, i found both of them more challenging to control, although a faint promise of more rich upper partials still keeps me slightly interested in them. But i didn't get the same experience as i got when i tried a legere-playnick german signature reed combined with playeasy B1 mouthpiece years ago: "oh baby, where have you been for whole my life"
And C7 with an european signature is as rock solid as C7 can possibly be.
Jarmo Hyvakko, Principal Clarinet, Tampere Philharmonic, Finland
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Author: Ed
Date: 2020-12-17 16:18
Quote:
Has anybody tried the new D’Addaro’s Venn?
I did and found nothing good about them. I have played both the original and "improved" version (not sure what was improved as I could detect no real differences). I could not imagine using it for practice or performance. It was unusable for me.
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Author: driver
Date: 2020-12-17 19:46
Author: igalkov
Date: 2020-12-17 09:17
Has anybody tried the new D’Addaro’s Venn?
The one I received in the mail had a visibly warped tip. Never did try it and I won't be ordering another. The packaging may cost more than the reed itself.
It's cane for me I guess.
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Author: dkojevnikov
Date: 2020-12-22 21:49
I got my D’Addario Venn, looks and feels pretty similar to Fibercell. I don’t like them.
Almost impossible to play anything above A6. Maybe they are going to improve it in the future but as of now all the bad reviews seem accurate.
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Author: alaes
Date: 2021-02-12 02:19
I have played for 50 years and held off using synthetic. I finally researched them and decided to try a Legere Signature.
I don't believe there is anyway these reeds "mimic" the cane qualities of the traditional reed. The tones produced are sharp/shrill and the responsiveness is greatly lacking. There is no depth or deepness to the sound produced.
I've spoken to a representative of this company and told him the same. It is clearly a sad commentary on the musical instrument industry when products like this are allowed when they don't come close to the outrageous claims that they make. Consumers are definitely being deceived by these manufacturers and the retailers who sell these products.
It's impossible to believe any of these so called "good" reviews for these reeds.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-02-12 05:48
Hey "alaes,"
You NEED to try the European Signature cut reeds. Totally different, very responsive and resonant. Of course as a side by side comparison with cane, you'll still find cane better. However, there are sooooo many advantages to synthetic!
I agree that the Legere Signature Bb clarinet reeds are awful.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: kilo
Date: 2021-02-12 23:03
In case anyone is searching, there is no longer a "European Signature" cut Legere. For clarinet they offer "European Cut", "Signature" and "Classic".
For sax the line up is now "American Cut", "Signature", "Classic", and "Studio Cut".
I'm not sure if they still have a line specifically for students.
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Author: Hugues Fardao
Date: 2021-02-12 23:30
I'm on Légère European reeds on B flat clarinet, since they came out in 2016. I prefer them over Signature wich are very thin and are easily damaged. I like the sound, I'm more comfortable than on cane reeds.
I use Légère Studio sax reeds on my alto clarinet since there's no Légère alto clarinet reeds.
( European clarinet reeds were inspired by soprano sax reeds by the way : in an interview, Tim Elvy from Légère explains that the European comes from a request, a Japanese clarinetist playing with a soprano sax reed on his Bb : http://clarineat.com/s01e15 )
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-02-13 02:01
"kilo,"
Funny you should mention that. I assumed that all the major retailers had the latest and greatest but after checking Weiner Music, Muncy Winds, Woodwind Brasswind and Thomann; only Thomann has the Bb European Cut (the ones with the wasteful plastic package and the strength imprinted upon them).
Legere last a good long time and I am not yet in need of restocking so I'll wait for the big retailers to catch up.
Were you referring strictly to Thomann?
................Paul Aviles
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Author: Jarmo Hyvakko
Date: 2021-02-13 11:11
I asked Legere and they said that "european cut" is the same reed as previous "european signature". They just renamed it to avoid confusion with the other signature.
Jarmo Hyvakko, Principal Clarinet, Tampere Philharmonic, Finland
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Author: kilo
Date: 2021-02-13 14:37
I was referring to the Legere website, Paul. Just in case someone was looking for a "European Signature"and got confused. I never cared for the standalone "Signature" but I'm very impressed with the "European Cut" on B.C. I still have quite a few of the "Quebec Cut" soprano reeds, which should last me a long time.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-02-13 16:50
Thanks for clarification kilo!
I never think to purchase direct from Legere since they are the manufacturer. Also, you can usually get better return policy from other vendors such as Amazon (Legere has a four reed limit per year on exchanges..........unless they've changed that recently; you can return anything to Amazon for full refund).
I guess if I want the strength printed on the reed sooner than later, I can go directly through Legere (Thomann orders from US have a hefty shipping charge).
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-02-13 21:25
Ok, I decided to get a few from Legere. Turns out they charge $40 US dollars per reed on their website. So with free shipping, the three I ordered will have cost as much as ordering through Thomann with the $30 shipping to the US.
hmmmmmmm
Another reason why I usually order through Woodwind Brasswind.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: gwie
Date: 2021-02-13 22:48
I've been playing on the Legere European Cut since 2016, and they've served admirably. Since my recent move to the US east coast, the issues with temperature and humidity changes have manifested themselves more with my cane reeds, to the point where there have been quite a few times when the synthetic has been a lifesaver.
I keep borrowing the words of Brad Behn on this topic: one really needs to play a mouthpiece that mitigates the issues of plastic, and provides a more cane-like experience for this to work. I've certainly tried Legere and others on some mouthpieces that will apparently never function in a satisfactory way with synthetics. They're also very finicky about placement--even a slight position difference L-R or up-down will dramatically affect the behavior of the reed.
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Author: kilo
Date: 2021-02-14 00:04
Paul, I didn't mean to suggest purchasing your reeds from Legere! No, I only referred to their site because they'd be sure to list all their current reeds. I know how much they charge — when I got my new Grabner mouthpiece Walter suggested the "American Cut" and when I saw Legere's price per reed my stomach dropped. But luckily I checked WWBW, they were $9 less, and I put my order in. And I'm glad I did; that reed pairs very nicely with that mouthpiece. What I believe I will do, as soon as I post this, is sign up for the Legere newsletter so I'll be notified about their new products — and the ones they're discontinuing.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-02-14 01:07
gwie,
So what architectural specifics according to Brad mitigate the issues with plastic?
I just had him custom make s Sonus for me. I kinda insisted on thin rails (side and tip) and wanted the "S-Curve" baffle referred to in an earlier post (the convex point in the baffle REALLY helps me out a lot!).
................Paul Aviles
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