 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Niclas.e.gustafsson
Date: 2020-10-21 16:02
Okay, so this is kind of an out of the box experiment explained here. Hehe. Both the blue and gray boxes. But please try this out and see what happens. Maybe i’ve gone mad?!
I have been adjusting reed for a long time. Bought a LOT of equipement. And then i got interested in how they were made, and then how the reed material was built up. Tried making some of my own etc. You know this rabbit hole some of you, eh?
I quickly realized trough videos on youtube and such that all strenghts are the same thickness. Measured with many hundred points in a laser measuring machine of some kind. THEN the strenght of the reed is determined, by some kind of flexing device. So the FIBERS is determining what strenght it is.
Then i started thinking about adjusting the reed. Filing, sanding, scraping, what ever never worked for me. I ended up with a playable reed from a not playable reed. But i wasnt able to adjust them to be those amazing perfect reeds that was maybe one out of every 10 reeds, you know?
So i searched the internet and found that (some) jazz saxophonists takes a too strong reed and put it on the mpc table at 90 degrees, pushing it firmly with their thumb and tap it gently with their index finger to soften some of the fibers to make the reed vibrate more. Worked for me too. Cool new approach i think. And...
And THEN i thought to myself, when a reed is unbalanced, couln’t i just do the same but with the corner of the reed. So i put the reed at a 45 degree angle and tapped it very softly. And voila! It actually worked. The hard corner softened up to match the soft one. Balanced reed!!! In 3 seconds flat.
I have experimented with this technique a couple of weeks now, and it works EVERY TIME! Im amazed, and a bit confused i have never heard about it before. Its so simple!
I can get every reed to play almost identical without nothing more than my mouthpiece and index finger.
(Some reeds ARE bad. No questions there. But those are manufacturing defects like loose wood still on the reed etc. and for a few weeks and maybe 3-4 boxes of different brands i have found 2-3 that this didnt work on.)
Please try this out for yourself and tell me what you think. I will attempt to make a video showing it when my cold wears off.
Post Edited (2020-10-21 16:02)
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Author: igalkov
Date: 2020-10-21 20:36
Can you please drop a link of that video of saxophonists doing this? Very interesting
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2020-10-21 21:14
While I don't recall folks trying this to balance a reed, I remember this being sort of a "normal" or widely-spread thing to do back when I was in school. I always thought of it being more of a nervous habit than a technique. Sort of like scowling and fiddling with the ligature/reed after flubbing an exposed part.
Fuzzy
;^)>>>
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Author: Niclas.e.gustafsson
Date: 2020-10-22 00:54
No it really soften up the fibers making it softer. The same thing that determines reed strenght and the same thing that happens when breaking a reed in.
At the bottom of this article they explain the idea i based the balancing approach on. I read a forum thread where it came up, but it is out there on many places.
https://www.reverbland.com/how-to-break-in-new-saxophone-reeds/
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2020-10-22 04:00
I tried this on a reed I'm currently breaking in and it actually seemed to work -n the second try.
I didn't understand from the description which direction to flick the free end of the reed. My first try was to flick downward with my finger hitting the bark, which flexed the corner of the vamp forward. When I tested it, the reed was unplayable - completely closed up. Wrong direction! So I laid the corner back on the table and flicked from the underside. That fixed the original damage and actually succeeded in freeing the reed up.
Apparently, you're not just softening. You must be slightly bending the tip toward or away from the rails of the mouthpiece. My first try bent the tip toward and, probably, against the corner of the rails. The second try must have bent it back to and slightly past where it had started.
So my questions are: did I soften the fibers, or did I just bend the tip slightly away from the rails, creating more room for vibration; if I was only bending the reed, will it still be shaped the same way the next time I wet it and try to play on it (tune in tomorrow)?
I suppose whatever the actual effect is, it still would be a viable on-the-fly adjustment to a balky reed when you don't have time to find and wet a different one.
Karl
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Author: Ed
Date: 2020-10-22 05:33
Yes, I have used this kind of technique for ages and it works pretty well.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2020-10-22 16:51
Nickla said "I quickly realized trough videos on youtube and such that all strenghts are the same thickness. Measured with many hundred points in a laser measuring machine of some kind. THEN the strenght of the reed is determined, by some kind of flexing device. So the FIBERS is determining what strenght it is."
From my vast experience in adjusting, breaking in and making reeds from blanks I'll say this. It depends on the standard that the player has that will determine what a "good" reed is or not. When I made my own I have several tools that measured the thickness of the reeds and after many experiments and time I came up will a model of a reed that I copied for many years.
I don't agree with the statement above that all commercial reeds are the same thinknesses no matter what the strength.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2020-10-22 17:46
Ed, to be clear, it's not that all commercial reeds are cut the same. But it does seem to be true (from a number of sources) that all Vandoren V12s are cut on the same machines to the same dimensions and then sorted by stiffness afterward. Same for all 55 Rue lepic or all V21, etc... I think I've seen "How a reed is made" type videos from other companies that also showed sorting being done after the cutting process was complete.
It's obviously not true that Vandorens, D'Addarios, Gonzalez, and Zondas (to pick a few) are all the same thickness or same dimensions as each other.
Karl
Post Edited (2020-10-22 17:47)
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Author: Paul Globus
Date: 2020-10-22 18:17
I have visited a number of reed-making factories over the years, including Vandoren.
Indeed, all reeds of the same brand are cut on the same machines and have the exact same dimensions. They are classified by strength after they are cut -- it is the last phase of the production process. It is done in a machine that uses air to flex the tip area.
The "flex" is measured very precisely. So, a "harder" reed is not thicker than a "softer" reed. The internal fibers of the "harder" reed are stiffer than the internal fibers of the "softer" reed. Conclusion: most of the adjusting that people do to their reeds using knives and sandpaper and other tools is very tricky because, unless you are highly skilled at maintaining the reed's design or "profile," you are messing up the reed -- making it worse rather than better.
Every reed brand -- Vandoren Traditional, V12, Rue Lepic, Rico Reserve Classic, Gonzales, you name it -- has a distinct design or profile. The manufacturers have metal templates, or molds, of these profiles, which they can use on any machine to produce that brand of reed. The most prized possession they have in their factories is not the machines or their stock of cane but their molds.
Incidentally, even Legere reeds are produced in a manner that mirrors what the cane guys are doing. If you measure say, a Legere European Signature #3 and a Legere European Signature #4.5, you'll find that the dimensions are the same. The difference is in the stiffness of the material -- Legere is adjusting the polymer compound to produce the desired strength.
The idea of flexing the tip explained at the top of this thread is a good one that oldtimers like me have known about and been using for years.
Paul Globus
Post Edited (2020-10-22 18:19)
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Author: donald
Date: 2020-10-22 23:08
Indeed, Bob Listokin wrote an article about it for The Clarinet in about 1988/89 I think. Join the ICA and you have access to all these old magazines, hours of informative reading.
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Author: Luuk ★2017
Date: 2020-10-23 13:47
Very interesting thread. However, I do not understand from the descriptions exactly what to do. Maybe a picture or two would help.
Thank you,
Regards,
Luuk
Philips Symphonic Band
The Netherlands
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2020-10-23 17:46
I have not doubt that the above is correct but from my experience when I used to measure the thickness of reeds before making my own to list the different thickness at different points of the commercial reeds I was using at the time, Oliveri reeds, to come up with my model to duplicate that's what I found to be true. I had a complete list from several dozen reeds at about ten points on each side of the reeds that I liked and than for many years made my reeds as close to those figures as possible. I do admit it was a long time ago and I do agree that two reeds of the same thickness often played slightly different strengths due to the density of the cane. I only speak from that experience.
I have heard that manufactures, at least Vandoren when I visited the factory years ago, cut them from the same machine to the same thickness and then divided them into strengths. What I don't understand is why when I'd often measure them with my reed perfector for students so many were different thicknesses at different points from each other. Oh well.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2020-10-23 19:18
When you did your measurements of the same model reed and noticed differences in size when examining the same area of two different reeds, was it possible that each reed's ability to absorb moisture might have accounted for these differences?
I'd be curious to know if such differences are observable today when doing the same test (on Vandorens) just after opening their individual packaging. My days as a child player provided no such protections by Vandoren against humidity, as I suspect many would recall and under which you might have effected these test.
Given the climate controlled factories I'm to understand Vandoren cuts them in, and the shrink wrap that is supposed to keep them closer to those ambient conditions (temperature notwithstanding) until ready for use, I wonder if less (physical) variation between, say, two V21's would be noticeable.
My targeting Vandoren is solely because their packaging around the reed and climate controlled factories might provide better scientific controls as compared to other manufacturers who package their reeds to solely resist physical (not environmental) change.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2020-10-23 19:26
Ed Palanker wrote:
>What I don't understand is why when I'd often measure them with
> my reed perfector for students so many were different
> thicknesses at different points from each other. Oh well.
>
Ed, that's just manufacturing inconsistency. Even the thickness of the overall reed is different from one reed to another within the same model, but the differences aren't related to the labelled strength of the reed. I can easily find V.12s that range anywhere, measured where the bark begins at the end of the vamp, from 2.98 mm to 3.6 mm. The same relative level of inconsistency happens in the vamps themselves in my experience, using a PerfectaReed gauge. So, I agree with you that there are measurable differences in thickness that can explain some of a reed's resistance or lack of it. But those differences don't happen on purpose at the manufacturers' end. They cut everything on the same cutters and sort them for overall flexibility after.
I would expect at the very least that the blanks for all V.12s would be uniform in thickness. Same for all V21s and all Rue Lepics and each of the other styles they produce. I don't know why they can't maintain at least that much consistency.
Karl
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Author: Paul Globus
Date: 2020-10-23 20:22
It's all about quality control.
Arundo donax is a very hard material. The cutting blades don't hold up that long and need to be replaced quite frequently, as a result. Consequently, the machines need to be re-calibrated.
It's a very delicate process. The manufacturers do their best but even if they're a few thousandths of an inch off in the calibration (or a little late in replacing the cutting blades), the reeds they produce will play -- and measure --differently from the reeds they produced previously on the same machine.
But again, they are not producing reeds of various strengths, i.e. 3 or 3.5 or 4 or 5. They are producing hundreds of reeds based on a particular design or profile and sorting them afterwards for strength based on a flex test of the internal fibers.
Paul Globus
Post Edited (2020-10-23 20:25)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2020-10-23 21:00
SecondTry wrote:
> When you did your measurements of the same model reed and
> noticed differences in size when examining the same area of two
> different reeds, was it possible that each reed's ability to
> absorb moisture might have accounted for these differences?
>
I measure them dry. I can't account for any natural moisture content resulting from environmental exposure or, in their protective packaging, lack of it. I'd guess that any difference in moisture content from reed to reed (before wetting them to play) would be too small to make measurable differences in the dimensions along the vamp. I can't imagine at all that the moisture the reeds absorb from the environment can make a half millimeter's difference in the basic blank thickness.
Of course, wetting a reed to play it can cause significant expansion and often the reed doesn't fully recover to its original dimensions when it dries - ("This reed played so much better yesterday when I first tried it!").
Paul Globus's explanation that the blades need frequent replacement and recalibration makes some sense, but my knee-jerk reaction is that they should be able to engineer the machines to be more precisely adjustable. By this time, some degree of computerized monitoring of the machines' calibrations ought to be able to minimize the variations more reliably from one blade replacement to another. But I say that not knowing how the cutting machines used by Vandoren or by other reed makers work.
Karl
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2020-10-23 23:40
I always measured mine dry when trying to come up with my models. I don't know how Oliveri cut his way back then. I used to buy his blanks because I loved his cane, thick cane with a good taper from tip to bark. Once he went out of business I could no longer find blanks I liked and that's about the time Rico was coming out with their reeds and different cuts. I was one of those they sent models to in order to give my opinions and everntually settled on their "thick blank cut" and they sent me about a dozen a year for several years, clarinet and bass clarinet. I really can't remember doing anything with my Reed Perfecta with those and I've since gave it way, I'm happily retired. I probably did measure my students reeds damp since I was showing them how to adjust the reed they played.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
Post Edited (2020-10-24 16:49)
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2020-10-24 03:47
I know for all us the proof's in the play, not how the reed looks, but it's funny how Vandoren claims (maybe implies) a .021 unit (I presume millimeters) tolerance in the video below.
At least that's the highest value I saw when watching the measurement in slow motion....
https://youtu.be/XvmfrTsC7GU?t=115
Post Edited (2020-10-24 03:52)
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Author: DaphnisetChloe
Date: 2020-10-24 15:27
The problem with this approach is that by bending the reed you weaken the fibres and as a result it will not play well for very long before deteriorating
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2020-10-24 16:58
DC above said. "The problem with this approach is that by bending the reed you weaken the fibres and as a result it will not play well for very long before deteriorating" I totally agree. I'd also like to give my opinion of this. If a company separates reeds into strengths by "flexibility" when they're dry, I assume they don't wet them to do that, the tips of a reed will give a false number because of the inconsistency of the grain in natural cane. Once the tip is wet they will most likely flex much different than when dry. Perhaps that explains why they are so inconsistent. Just my opinion from my experience.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2020-10-24 17:38
DaphnisetChloe wrote:
> The problem with this approach is that by bending the reed you
> weaken the fibres and as a result it will not play well for
> very long before deteriorating
That's my suspicion, too. As a one-time fix to get through a practice session or a rehearsal it may be useful as an alternative to searching for something better. I'd be curious if anyone who does this can say what the long-term effect is on the reed.
Karl
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Author: Paul Globus
Date: 2020-10-24 17:40
Indeed, the test of the reed's flexibility is done when the reed is dry. I believe that the first time any reed is moistened with saliva or with water is when a player tries it (of course, at Vandoren and other factories, I saw people who work there moistening and testing reeds as they came off the production line to monitor general playing consistency but that's a different matter).
With all due respect, Mr. Palanker, the flexibility number is neither "true" nor "false." It's just a number to indicate the "relative" flexing of the reed's interior fibers -- one reed compared to the next. The machine releases a fast burst of air aimed at the tip of the reed. The reed does not appear to flex but the machine's digital reed-out instantly provides a number: 2.5 or 3 or 4.5 or whatever. If you stand there watching for five minutes, you see just about every possible number flash on the display, from 1.5 to 5. Based on the number, the reeds are sorted and boxed.
Paul Globus
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Author: Paul Globus
Date: 2020-10-24 18:01
Regarding the idea that bending the reed weakens the fibers and as a result the reed will not play well for very long before deteriorating, I hasten to point out that playing the reed through a so-called "break-in" period also weakens the fibers. Indeed, playing the reed ultimately weakens the fibers so much that you need to discard it in favor of a new one.
I think it was pointed out earlier that this little flexing trick is simply a way of circumventing the long, break-in process. In my experience, it works well most of the time and does not shorten the reed's playing life. I find it is also a better way to reduce the reed's basic blowing resistance than sanding and scraping. But I am the first to admit that experienced reed-makers like Ed Palanker could probably do just as well -- or better -- using a reed knife to achieve the desired results.
Paul Globus
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2020-10-24 18:03
I completely agree that the puff of air/deflection test to determine reed strength--despite well scientifically controlled with respect to air pressure (like a glaucoma test)--is as highly flawed a method for determining play strength as it nonetheless is the best method (given the alternatives) with respect to speed of results.
Perhaps someday, despite how far we've come, synthetic reeds (where consistency can be better controlled) will be nearly imperceptible in more ways from the best cane, or machines will be able to examine cane both microscopically and in a fraction of a second to compare it, using AI (artificial intelligence) to patterns already machine learned to arrive at more precise strength calculations, perhaps even custom shaping the reed to reflect such inter- and intra-reed differences. And that's assuming good correlation can be found between reed imaging and play results.
But IMHO I can't see this happening until such tech's costs are much much less than they are today, likely much more advanced, and viable only if synthetic solutions approach a limit with respect to mirroring the best of cane.
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Author: Paul Globus
Date: 2020-10-24 18:26
Technology notwithstanding, cane will never be perfect because it's a natural and highly variably material -- one cannot control its interior structure. But synthetic reeds, in my opinion, will continue to get better. Their inherent advantage is that the manufacturer controls the material and can therefore, by adjusting the formula, control how the material flexes and vibrates. The only question becomes to what degree the synthetic material produces the desired overtones and how the reed feels to the player.
Nowadays it seems many players rely on both cane and synthetic reeds. That's certainly better than the old days when cane was the only option.
Paul
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2020-10-24 19:03
SecondTry wrote:
> or machines will
> be able to examine cane both microscopically and in a fraction
> of a second to compare it, using AI (artificial intelligence)
> to patterns already machine learned to arrive at more precise
> strength calculations, perhaps even custom shaping the reed to
> reflect such inter- and intra-reed differences.
No matter how well controlled the processes of cutting and sorting become, there will be players who aren't comfortable with the result. Their playing approaches and their mouthpieces will mean that the manufactured result isn't optimal for them.
One of the main problems with synthetic reeds, apart from tone quality, is that most aren't easily adjustable. I know one synthetic that's made from actual pulverized cane and a synthetic binder is claimed to be workable in the same ways as cane, but my experience differed. I know Bob Bernardo has written about his approach to adjusting Legeres, but when I've tried I've ended up with a mess. We'll never have standardized mouthpieces or players, so I doubt there will ever be a reed that doesn't need to be adjusted to suit some players. Consistent or not, they'll never suit everyone.
Karl
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2020-10-25 00:43
It's so true Karl that the Pipe Dream that is consistency in reeds still has as its limiting factor the variability of a player and their equipment.
I seem to recall, I think it was Tom Ridenour, who offered (offers?) a service where you supplied him with reeds you thought played well and he did his level best to play them, note their characteristics, and modify new reeds to play somewhat like them.
Perhaps machines will someday be able to do that for customers. Perhaps even, if reeds can become more consistent (cane or better synthetic) that solutions will come in mouthpiece lay adjustments: a preposterous notion (adjusting the mouthpiece to the reed) today given the variability of cane.
Then again, there'd still be the issue of whether such magic reeds would wear down in uniform time frames and ways, and given the relatively limited market of reed consumers (say compared to....automobiles), what incentives reed manufactures would have in creating/purchasing/adopting such tech.
It is though nice to dream as another failed reed gets repurposed as firewood.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2020-10-25 03:37
SecondTry wrote:
> ...solutions will come in mouthpiece lay
> adjustments: a preposterous notion (adjusting the mouthpiece to
> the reed) today given the variability of cane.
Gennusa was reputed to have done exactly that - sometimes on the stage during a rehearsal or (supposedly) even a concert intermission. I didn't study with him, but he and his idiosyncrasies were more or less legend in the Philadelphia area when I was studying.
Amazing clarinetist and musician, however true or exaggerated the legend.
Karl
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2020-10-25 17:00
"Gennusa was reputed to have done exactly that - sometimes on the stage during a rehearsal or (supposedly) even a concert intermission. I didn't study with him, but he and his idiosyncrasies were more or less legend in the Philadelphia area when I was studying.
Amazing clarinetist and musician, however true or exaggerated the legend.
Karl"
I played with Gennusa in the BSO for about five years. He never did anything with the facing of his mouthpiece that I ever saw or heard but I did witness his "opening" the bore slightly on a few occasions, I was shocked. He had very strange ideas about a lot of things but he sure was a beautiful player.
With that said I want to say I'm not disagreeing with many opinions on this post, I speak only my experience in adjusting and making reeds for many years. I always adjusted the tips of a reed by what I call touchy, "slightly" flexing both sides against the tip of my finger to determing which side is unbalanced while wet. SLIGHTLY. The last time I was at a reed factory watching the production process was as a student in about 1960, the Vandoren factory. I used Vandorens up until about 1980 for clarinet and about 1995 on bass but must admit I don't ever remember measuring anything on a bass reed. I never made my own for bass. Good topic, thanks.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2020-10-26 05:58
This is a topic I know a lot about! Rico uses diamonds to cut reeds. So the diamonds will last months and even up to a year per machine. Diamonds are the hardest material there is. On a scale from 1 to 10, diamonds are a 10. Water is of course 0! Then you have sandstone, about a 3, quartz is around a 7.
The machines are not adjusted very often and once the machines are set correctly each machine can cut a reeds in less than 6 seconds for the bari sax reeds, to an E flat clarinet reeds or sop sax reed often 4 seconds. There are around 32 machines or more at Rico. This is why they can pop out around 15 to 25 million reeds a year.
Once the machines are set to make 2 1/2 strength reeds some reeds which are harder will end up around 3 1/2 to 5 strength reeds and softer reeds fall around 1/ 1/2 to 2. Yes the reeds all measure the exact same! This is Usually related to fibers and much more.
As for the strengths, the fibers are often key to how a reed plays, also the geographic locations. Such as France, Spain, and actually near my house here in California I can find local wild cane. Wild cane is pretty much a weed found everywhere. Cane is classified as a weed. I like wild cane because it is usaully older and the poles are harder in strength. Fields, not wild cane, is also grown by the major reed companies. At one point Rico and Vandoren shared the sames cane fields next to each other, in Argentina and in France. The usually cut the poles after 2 growing seasons. I prefer to find cane which might be 5 years old. The height of the cane poles is around 13 feet or so. Then the cane gets a bit fatter and much more dense. This produces harder reeds with longer playing per reed. By the way, the cane should cure for a few years once it is cut.
What makes better cane? I strongly believe it has to do with weather, the amount of water, temperature, age, and wind. So if everything is perfect the fibers are stronger, thicker, and more fibers is in the reeds. With poor quality cane, not enough rain, too much wind, lack of fibers, no fertilizers added, will result.
The Steuer reeds I imported for a few years, this cane was and remains excellent. The minor problem was related to poor measurements and no musicians checking the reeds every few hours. So if a machine was out of adjustment 1000's of reeds were unplayable.
With Rico the cane was tested by me and a 2 other musicians and the machines were checked and measured every 30 minutes. The problem with Rico it is hard to find quality cane year after year to support as many as 25 million reeds a year. If the measurements were off by a couple of thousandths of an inch, about the thickness of a human hair, the machines were adjusted accordingly. Most of the time adjustments were not needed for several months.
A player can sand the butt end of the each reed and count the amount of fibers and the thickness of the fibers, giving the player a good idea of how the cane will play in seconds. I need a magnifier to see the tiny fiber circles at the back end of the reed.
I now make my own reeds and I have all of the measuring tools needed to enhance my success of great reeds. I also buy French cane. Cane from Argentina can be very good sometimes. A selected area near my house has very good cane.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: EbClarinet
Date: 2020-10-26 06:14
Perhaps u should try hundreds of different ads of reeds and then do your process on them. I'm not in college any more but my clarinet professor had hundreds of different kinds of reeds that she played on.
I don't know if a box of Vandoren reeds r finished or not (she says they're not). What is your end result of getting reeds playable?
I have the gift and ability 2 make all 10 reeds playable just by blowing on them. I know how to work on a reed but with my embouchure, I know how to make a difficult reed work for me.
Some of them I still have from college (30 years ago).
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/mbtldsongministry/
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Author: Niclas.e.gustafsson
Date: 2021-03-16 12:41
Hello and sorry for not answering you all. Never found the thread again when i remembered i posted it. Haha. Not dementia, but stress induced memory issues.
To point: amazing answers!! Thank you! This made my day! So much wonderful knowledge.
I have not experienced any issues with reeds getting too soft too fast when doing this. Been doing it on almost every reed since i first posted. In the beginning i overdid it a bit and it resembled a reed getting worn out (fiber instability?)
I think this is a great method for people not already having a black belt in knife adjusting and still wanting good reeds. im sure you guys can get amazing reeds the standard way, but i can not. To me they all seem to lack something.
Here is the post i created instead of this one. Including a video to demonstrate. Sorry for the confusion.
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=489927&t=489927
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Author: Leonard Alterman
Date: 2021-03-17 03:15
I tried this on two reeds and after each one the reed would not make a sound. No air flowing through the horn. Any suggestions.
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2021-03-17 05:22
leonardalterman@gmail.com wrote:
> I tried this on two reeds and after each one the reed would not
> make a sound. No air flowing through the horn. Any
> suggestions.
Leonard, I can't speak for anyone's technique but my own, nor why after your application of the technique those reeds became unmanageable.
What I can say is that having broken reeds with this technique when first trying it, to my way of seeing things, the flick against the reed is more like that I might effect to "motivate a fly to stop sitting on my kitchen table:" i.r. it's light.
How much of the reed I keep on the mouthpiece and how far down I flick the part of the reed that hangs off the side of the mouthpiece are also relevant too IMHO. The less of the tip you leave on the mouthpiece and the closer to the butt end of the reed you flick, all other things equal, IMHO, the more (controlled) damage that you'll do to the reed and the greater risk you'll encounter in taking that reed to "unplayable places."
Like all things reed, "less is more" as you can always exacerbate controlled damage to the fibers with additional flicks, but once you've done too much, well, all you end up with is your reed being "firewood."
It is not uncommon for me to take more of the reed on to the mouthpiece and start with a few flicks distanced from the butt end, followed by a test play. As mentioned in prior posts, I'm also going to try this while holding the reed at angles other than my historical perpendicular only one, to see if I can match each of a reed's sides in strength as the OP suggests.
I also believe, like all techniques, including reed sanding, (my preferred method being use of the ATG product) that there are limits to how much good it will do, and of course this utility will vary among reeds.
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