 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Niclas.e.gustafsson
Date: 2020-10-15 16:46
Hello!
I am a professional clarinetist, that was kind of forced in to teaching sax a few years back. (Kids to feed...)I have been playing sax for a long time, but never got any real training exept 6 months at university and then it was only classical saxophone music. So i got a very round and big sound. Works great for classical music, but when i try to play jazz or rock it sounds like an opera singer singing a pop tune... not very suiting!!
I want to sound like those edgy thin reedy jazz players, you know?
How? What am i missing? Is it embouchure? Setup?
Using a selmer solist c* mpc and legere signature 3,5.
Please point me in the direction of some nice youtube vids that explains what i need to know.
Best regards
Niclas
Ps. I know my way around the scales and such. That part is manageble for my humble needs. technique and soloing skills is fine. This is only a sound issue, since i have not have any training except classical and clarinet.
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2020-10-15 19:38
A popular lead alto sax mouthpiece that can also be used for many types of jazz is the Meyer 7M NY (New York model). This has been copied over and over again by many different manufacturers for decades. Nathan Graybeal runs the Saxlogic YouTube videos and plays both classical and jazz sax. For classical I believe he uses Selmer, for lead work and some jazz he has used the Meyer 7M NY. Recently Syos made a mouthpiece for him based partly on the 7M that they also sell on the open market.
Trying all the sax mouthpieces out there is virtually impossible. Even keeping up with all the makers and model names would be virtually a full-time job. With the clarinet, you have a dozen or two makers of mouthpieces today; with the sax, the list easily runs past a hundred and will only increase with the proliferation of CNC machines and 3D printers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3kDB_tan68.
If you want to explore much more, try Steve Neff's ongoing blog. To date, he has tested about 96 different alto sax mouthpieces (and even more tenor pieces) there, so you can hear the differences: https://www.neffmusic.com/blog/mouthpiece-review-list/ His list is a fairly comprehensive one of what's on the market (or has been on the
market--because some of these are discontinued collectors' items now) especially for commercial, pop, jazz, big band, etc. sax but not so much of what would be considered a specialist's choice for classical saxophone performance. To jump straight in his list to an edgy, reedy, punchy-sounding mouthpiece, scroll down to the Liu Shizhao Pearls metal Alto Sax mouthpiece. Is that the sort of thing you're looking for?
Some of the most musical sounding bright and penetrating commercial mouthpieces to my ears are the Ken Okutsu rubber models, and the Kanees, which are easy to play and control. You can scroll down and hear Steve Neff play those too. For a big, Cannonball Adderley sound, try the LAW LCD 6*. For a light, lyrically cutting sound, there's the G. Morgan Excaliber that's an easy switch from classical to jazz and pop.
Post Edited (2020-10-18 19:12)
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Author: Jeroen
Date: 2020-10-15 22:43
Niclas wrote:
> So i got a very round and big sound. Works great for classical music, but
> when i try to play jazz or rock it sounds like an opera singer singing a pop
> tune... not very suiting!!
>
> I want to sound like those edgy thin reedy jazz players, you know?
>
> How? What am i missing? Is it embouchure? Setup?
Many clarinet players that pick up saxophone "suffer" from a round big sound (like myself). With our highly trained embouchure and air support the saxophone is a much easier instrument to achieve a full tone out of it.
What you need is a mouthpiece with a higher baffle and a smaller chamber. The Meyer 6M or 7M that Seabreeze recommends is a good start but is still a fairly round and full sounding mouthpiece. Probably you need to go a step further.
Nowadays there are many mouthpieces that give brighter sounds. Just search around youtube, there are many helpful video's. Check what sound you like and what gear is involved. Here is a very good video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjZZknFrGxo
When you have such a mouthpiece you probably need some minor embouchure changes and softer reeds. As a clarinettist you don't need large tip openings as "we" are able to produce a huge volume out of a small tip.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2020-10-15 23:33
Drake David Sanborn mouthpiece: https://www.drakemouthpieces.com/David_Sanborn_Model.html
My first metal alto mouthpiece after playing on a C** was a Dukoff D7 - similarly with bari I used to play a Soloist D then changed to a Dukoff D8. But I switched to Lawton 7*BB as they're much better made and much easier to make a variety of sounds on rather than being a one-trick pony.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2020-10-16 12:22)
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2020-10-18 11:49
Who do you want to sound like? Look them up and see what they play. You should be able to come up with a few options to try.
Coming from clarinet and classical saxophone, the issue is probably more a combination of your embouchure and your tone/articulation. Most of it is the attack, vibrato, and accentuation. It’s not true that it’s “all the player”, and the mouthpiece doesn’t matter, because it matters a lot. However it IS true that a player will tend to sound like themselves no matter what they are playing. You can use different mouthpieces to get the same sound (more or less). You can also use one mouthpiece to get different sounds (more or less). It’s mostly how you play the mouthpiece.
This is classic and should help a lot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Oc0VzGBPxY
Probably what you want is a little more edge or “bite”, and some flexibility. A rollover baffle at the tip helps. Playing a soft reed helps. The harder reed makes everything more stable, but less flexible. A lot of guys used to play LaVoz, but IDK if they are the same now.
Meyers are good. Especially for alto, but IMO you don’t have to have an open facing, a 5 or 6 is plenty big.
I’ve never had one, but Otto Link is great, especially for tenor.
A lot of other brands are based on these.
You can even play a Selmer S80 C*, or a Soloist. IMO these have a very bright sound, but not as much bite. Check this out, but look at his embouchure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCxXlfp7Wjs
On Stan Getz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4BNxmEz7xU&list=RDV4BNxmEz7xU&start_radio=1&t=0
Try watching these guys and comparing their sound, articulation, and embouchure:
Alto: Johnny Hodges, Charlie Parker, Lee Konitz, Cannonball Adderly, David Sanborn
Tenor: Ben Webster, Lester Young, Coleman Hawkins, Stan Getz, John Coltrane, Michael Brecker, Kenny G
Bari: Harry Carney (Duke Ellington)
Soprano: Sidney Bechet
Contemporary sounds tend to be very thin and edgy, but they don’t make saxophone sections like they used to....
Smooth Jazz / Fusion players tend to play metal pieces with VERY high small chamber baffles, like Dukoff. If you want that sound that’s what to use, but you sacrifice a fuller tone. It can sound great, just not as full or fat, like Chris says. Look at Kenny G or David Sanborn’s embouchure.
- Matthew Simington
Post Edited (2020-10-18 12:33)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2020-10-18 12:13
Adding Jan Garbarek to the list of influential/inspirational soprano sax players.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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