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Author: m1964
Date: 2020-09-11 05:43
I was offered a Buffet RC Prestige that was made for the European market- the s/n is F579xxx, the barrel is 65mm, and the bell says "442Hz".
To tune to 440Hz, the barrel needs to be pulled out by about 1.5-2mm.
It seems that the instrument had been played professionally- all the logos are worn off, but the silver plating is intact.
It does sound nice (has warm focused sound), but has a few stuffy notes and also a few out of tune.
Is French tuning a disadvantage in the US?
Also, I'd appreciate if anyone who is in the market would give me a ball park range of the prices on the RC Prestige about 10-12 years old.
Overall condition appears to be OK, cork pads mostly on upper joint, leather pads on lower.
Thanks
Post Edited (2020-09-11 06:15)
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2020-09-11 05:51
From what I understand there is no difference in the body of a Buffet clarinet made for the European market vs a USDM instrument, it's just the barrel that's different. If you want it to play at A=440 all you need is a 66mm barrel. I would probably pay about $1,500 for one in fair used condition, more if it's really clean.
-JDbassplayer.
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Author: m1964
Date: 2020-09-11 06:19
jdbassplayer wrote:
> From what I understand there is no difference in the body of a
> Buffet clarinet made for the European market vs a USDM
> instrument, it's just the barrel that's different. If you want
> it to play at A=440 all you need is a 66mm barrel. I would
> probably pay about $1,500 for one in fair used condition, more
> if it's really clean.
>
> -JDbassplayer.
Hi JDbassplayer,
Thanks a lot for quick reply.
Is your number ($1500) for a regular RC or for the Prestige?
Thanks again
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2020-09-11 07:00
That's what I paid for a 10 year old Festival so I assume an RC Prestige would be about the same given that the Festival is more popular here in America. Unless your really want a Prestige I wouldn't go much over that, they're good but there's a lot of other great used instruments you can get at that price point.
-Jdbassplayer
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Author: gatto
Date: 2020-09-11 08:03
RC Prestige came in two versions:
BC1106: 440 Hz
BC1107: 442 Hz
The lengths of the barrels was not the only difference. (But who can tell what the other differences precisely are?)
Now, in 2020, there is a new model:
BC1108: 440/442 Hz. It comes with two barrels.
You can find these informations on the Buffet Crampon website (spare parts):
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/mpdlfcbf96bjdv2/AABH5-xY81xry-thR3_JwxLZa
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/mpdlfcbf96bjdv2/AABH5-xY81xry-thR3_JwxLZa?preview=RC-Prestige-Spares-BC1106-07-08-BC1206-07-0.pdf
Actually, it seems that the new BC1108 has the same lower and upper joints as the BC1106, and the joints of the BC1107 are different.
Post Edited (2020-09-11 08:08)
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Author: m1964
Date: 2020-09-11 09:28
thank you, JDbassplayer and Gatto, for your help.
I'd think that the barrel could be different between the US and Euro models, since long B is a little high on this clarinet. Why would it say "442Hz" if it was the same for both markets?
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Author: Jeroen
Date: 2020-09-11 11:54
As gatto says the older RC (normal and Prestige) did have different joints. The high "F" version could be very high, even up to 444Hz. But there was never "442Hz" printed on parts. So maybe you have the later model with the longer joints.
To play the older high version on 440 a lot of pulling was needed, also in the middle. So check intonation carefully. If it is only the long B that is too high than there is no problem to play this clarinet in the US.
Post Edited (2020-09-11 11:58)
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Author: m1964
Date: 2020-09-11 18:00
To JDbassplayer:
I think you were lucky to buy the Festival for that price, esp. if there was nothing wrong with it.
To Jeroen:
It appears that someone played it for at least 10 years.
When I first started to look for a professional level clarinet 2 years ago, I avoided serial numbeds starting with F; now I see it's not a problem and can be a benefit when playing in a cold environments.
Where we rehearsed last year, the concert hall was not heated at night, so my own pair of Buffets would be slightly low. I even ordered a pair of short barrels - 65mm for the Bb and 64 for the A.
Can you possibly estimate what is a fair price to pay for a GOOD sounding RC Prestige (10 y. old)?
Thanks
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Author: Jeroen
Date: 2020-09-11 19:00
m1964 wrote:
> Can you possibly estimate what is a fair price to pay for a
> GOOD sounding RC Prestige (10 y. old)?
Well, here in Europe I would pay about a 1500 Euro I think.
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Author: gatto
Date: 2020-09-11 20:18
>It appears that someone played it for at least 10 years.
From the serial number I would estimate very (!) roughly that the clarinet is from around 2008/2009. (The "new" BC1108 is from this year, 2020.)
I can play my own RC Prestiges BC1107 and BC1207 easily around 443 Hz (or sharper). Much lower would be difficult for me. I guess, I would need a barrel 2 mm longer, and a mouthpiece designed for a=440 (as the 13-series of Vandoren). And even then I don't know. But I never tried. If you have no problems, then it is fine. The RC Prestige is a good instrument, in general.
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Author: m1964
Date: 2020-09-11 21:05
Thanks a lot to everyone who replied to my questions.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2020-09-12 01:30
What's most important is if it is in tune for you. Some mouthpieces tune lower, you might play in a cold environment, you might play in an ensemble or with a piano that is slightly high, etc. It is easy to add tuning rings or pull out. If you are flat you can't bring it up. It is good to have options to get things in tune.
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Author: m1964
Date: 2020-09-12 06:31
Ed wrote:
> ... It is good to have options to
> get things in tune.
My current option is a second barrel- 1 mm shorter than the stock for each clarinet, because of the low tuning in the winter.
I am not sure if I will buy this RC Prestige- the selling price is too high.
I might as well wait until France opens borders and take a short vacation in Paris😉.
Esp. that now the RC comes with 2 barrels.
Short barrels for my R13 I had to order special.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2020-09-12 09:07
At least here, almost everyone needs to play both 442 and 440 on the same clarinet. Also weather can make a huge change in comparison with 440 vs. 442.
>>> Can you possibly estimate what is a fair price to pay for a
>>> GOOD sounding RC Prestige (10 y. old)?
>> Well, here in Europe I would pay about a 1500 Euro I think.
My local prices seem to be irrelevant. That's about what you'd pay for a non-Prestige R13 or RC here (in very good condition).
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Author: Jarmo Hyvakko
Date: 2020-09-12 10:34
I happen to have an A clarinet prestige that is in 440 tuning. As i was interested in what is the difference between 440 and 442 models, i loaned an A clarinet of about the same age in 442 tuning. In 1980-90's they were easily recognized from the serial number, the 442 models had an F in the serial number. I measured the parts carefully and noticed that the right hand joint was some 2mm longer in 440 model. Then i measured the tone holes, their position and diameter and noticed that they were the same size in diameter but were that same 2 mm further down. Result: the 440 model has a lower joint that has been lengthened from the top.
So, if you want to play an older 442 rc prestige in 440 pitch you might want to try to put a tuning ring between right and left hand joints.
It's good to remember that rc prestige, as it's mother model rc, has originally been designed to play in 442 pitch whereas r-13 has originally been aimed at 440 market. Thus i believe that in general older rc's and rc prestige's in 442 pitch tend to be better instruments than 440 instruments.
For us europeans playing in continental pitch, as we call the 442 (the british use 440), the rc and prestige used to be THE Buffet's, not R13. And i am still using my pair of prestiges from early 1980's
Jarmo Hyvakko, Principal Clarinet, Tampere Philharmonic, Finland
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Author: m1964
Date: 2020-09-14 06:03
Jarmo Hyvakko wrote:
> It's good to remember that rc prestige, as it's mother model
> rc, has originally been designed to play in 442 pitch whereas
> r-13 has originally been aimed at 440 market. Thus i believe
> that in general older rc's and rc prestige's in 442 pitch tend
> to be better instruments than 440 instruments.
>
> For us europeans playing in continental pitch, as we call the
> 442 (the british use 440), the rc and prestige used to be THE
> Buffet's, not R13. And i am still using my pair of prestiges
> from early 1980's
>
Hi Jarmo,
I placed this 442Hz RC Prestige next to my 440Hz R13 Prestige to compare the keyworks and was surprised to find that the RC was actually longer!
Was it because of wider bore or something else?
I even thought that if I bought it, it might not fit into my R13 double case.
The key work was almost identical by the feel- I could switch between the two clarinets without any hesitations. Spring tension on certain keys may have been slightly different but both clarinets felt the same under my fingers.
One obvious difference was no adjustment screw on the right F/C key arm on the RC.
Supposedly, there is some difference in tone holes placement but I did not feel it.
Any way, it does not look like I would be buying it.
Post Edited (2020-09-14 07:46)
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Author: Jarmo Hyvakko
Date: 2020-09-14 09:57
m1964!
Surely bore plus placement and size of the tone holes have a huge effect to the total length of the instrument. I have had some Yamahas in my hands that are significantly shorter than my own instrument.
Jarmo Hyvakko, Principal Clarinet, Tampere Philharmonic, Finland
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Author: jthole
Date: 2020-09-14 11:08
I compared my BC20 (predecessor of the RC) with an old R13 that has a "F" serial number. Both should be designed theoretically for 442Hz, but in practice the BC20 is tuned slightly higher than the R13 "F". Interestingly, the BC20 is also slightly *longer* indeed, so there is more to a bore than the length (obviously). Visually there are differences as wel, like the placement of the register vent, and the size of the open tone holes.
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