 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ruben
Date: 2020-09-01 13:23
I can only think of one clarinet maker that makes the bottom and top body in one long body: Mr. Luigi Rossi. The drawbacks: if the bore cracks somewhere it might be hard to repair because difficult to reach. Maybe this long body would also tend to warp more. The advantage(s): As you don't have a corked joint between the two bodies damping the pressure waves, they should travel faster and more smoothly making for better response. I suggested once to Tom Ridenour to make a one piece-clarinet with top and bottom body plus bell all of a piece. When dealing with a synthetic material, I don't see why this wouldn't be possible. I seem to recall metal clarinets were all of a piece except for the barrel because of tuning. Your thoughts on the matter, please. I would especially like to hear from Rossi players.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: donald
Date: 2020-09-01 14:11
Advantage = c#/g#/f tone hole can be in the correct place.
Disadvantage = finding large enough billet adds to expense, and if a mistake is made a larger piece of wood is wasted.
Possible harder to create polycylindrical bores, though that is conjecture...
Post Edited (2020-09-01 14:13)
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Author: igalkov
Date: 2020-09-01 15:03
Ruben, it’s funny you mentioned Tom Ridenour because he’s the man that taught me (through his resources for sure, not personally) to tune clarinet by pulling lower joint as well as barrel. He advocates strongly this method so strange he didn’t replied to your proposal referring to this. Same with bell.
https://www.rclarinetproducts.com/tuning-the-clarinet-for-performance
Post Edited (2020-09-01 15:09)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2020-09-01 15:07
Clarinet bores have the expansions at the ends of the joints (above the throat A tonehole and below the F#/C# tonehole), so it's entirely possible to ream a polycylindrical bore on a single piece body as the expanding tapered or stepped reamers can go in from either end.
On your typical clarinet, the bore measurement is taken at the narrowest point of the bore which is at the middle tenon - on a single piece body, that will be the diameter of the parallel-sided reamer that goes all the way through the joint to ream it to that size.
Any serious defects or cracks that happen that compromise the joint or are otherwise irreparable will mean the entire joint will have to be replaced rather than an upper or lower joint as on a regular clarinet.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2020-09-01 15:14
Making a monobody clarinet in hard rubber shouldn't present any manufacturing problems and would, IMO, result in a superior instrument.
Tony F.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2020-09-01 17:04
ruben wrote:
> The
> drawbacks: if the bore cracks somewhere it might be hard to
> repair because difficult to reach. Maybe this long body would
> also tend to warp more.
> When dealing with a synthetic material, I don't see why
> this wouldn't be possible. I seem to recall metal clarinets
> were all of a piece except for the barrel because of tuning.
> Your thoughts on the matter, please.
Made of synthetic, I think this could be a real possibility. With all the swapping of original and after-market bells and barrels that has become so popular with clarinetists, you might get pushback if you tried to market something with the bell and barrel included in the unibody, although if the instrument were really well designed aftermarket parts shouldn't be necessary to improve it.
Karl
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Author: ruben
Date: 2020-09-01 17:14
Karl: the barrel would be be separated because you will often want to pull it out, or maybe try different bells that would suit your mouthpiece more.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: ACCA
Date: 2020-09-01 19:14
Advantages: an acoustically superior instrument as the c#/g#/f tone holes can be in the correct place & size- also, on top of the instrument where they won't fill with water. without needing to drill through the tenon like on full boehm instruments.
Drawbacks: manufacturing is more complex and requires a larger piece of wood, less of an issue with hard rubber
pulling out between joints for tuning is not possible- more barrels may be needed to compensate.
Case needs to be long and thin rather than standard shape. A double case would be approaching bassoon-case size probably!
if it's different from the industry standards, will you be able to sell it?! [This one probably the deal breaker!]
Good luck.
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2020-09-01 19:31
This is from an interview with Luis Rossi I did some years ago at the Atlanta C'fest:
"Making two-piece body clarinets isn’t related to the scarcity of larger wood billets, it‘s related to manufacturing.
As you probably know, most French and Italian makers were producing one piece body clarinets by first half of twentieth century, with the two joints model being in the market at the same time. With the arrival of the mass production, the one piece model was abandoned. Short blanks are easier to be obtained from wood dealers, and also can be machined faster. To me, the one piece body allows for a better tone hole placement and helps for a superior resonance."
B.
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Author: r small
Date: 2020-09-01 20:22
Pulling the top joint out from the bottom joint for tuning tends to create a wobbly joint. Any clarinet that required this in order to play in tune is a clarinet that I would never purchase.
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Author: Enatural
Date: 2020-09-01 20:53
I have an old Unibody Clarinet.
One advantage with a unibody, is that the clarinet can be fitted with an alternative right hand C#/G#. The second advantage is there is no risk of a middle tenon joint breaking or leaking.
The case is a little longer but it is still quite small compared to other instruments.
What I find curious is that the link mechanism between the two joints for R1, R2, R3 , Bb/Eb is fitted exactly the same as a split body clarinet.
As for pulling out the middle joint, I am not sure that everyone does this when tuning.
One thing I found difficult was setting the spring pressure on the C#/G# as there are two springs in opposition.
Roy
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-09-01 22:09
I was fascinated by the unique timbre of the Rossi clarinets but in the end could not bring myself to purchase due to the unibody design.
My reason is that it makes finding and diagnosing leaks infinitely more challenging. For me, a leak causes greater impact on the sound than any of the above advantages heretofore stated and I would rather have the ability to frequently check for that.
For the record though, the low E and F of the Rossi are the most hauntingly beautiful examples of those notes on ANY soprano clarinet.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: ruben
Date: 2020-09-02 00:27
ACCA: If the C charp G sharp tone hole was "in the correct place", meaning lower, wouldn't this make the altissimo F too flat?
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2020-09-02 00:44
"What I find curious is that the link mechanism between the two joints for R1, R2, R3 , Bb/Eb is fitted exactly the same as a split body clarinet."
It has to be, otherwise you'd lose C/G as soon as you put LH2 down if the ring keys are directly connected without a clutch as that would take the RH ring keys with it. As well as the key parts being readily available from regular clarinets which can be used as is or with some adaptation instead of special pieces needing being made.
The ring keys can always be mounted on a single rod screw going in from the topmost main action pillar and running the entire length of both LH and RH main action (all ring keys mounted on key barrels), or a long point screw running through just the LH rings and a short point screw on the lower of the RH ring key pillars (like most Eb clarinets and Pearl flutes have).
Single piece body Bb/A clarinets are constructed pretty much in the same way as most Eb clarinets are.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-09-02 01:18
Ruben,
I think a Rossi user would have the answer to the C#/G# query. Those notes are both "fuzzy" because of the compromise. My guess (only a guess) is that the ideal location would make the altissimo F more clear (more akin to the full fingering clarity).
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: donald
Date: 2020-09-02 04:15
Hi Chris P, I didn't say it was impossible to bore the single piece but that it was harder - with a longer "handle" on the reamer it becomes more difficult to keep the reamer concentric and small discrepancies happen more easily.
This obviously depends on HOW you are reaming and probably would not apply at all if bores were machined rather that done by hand. My friend who makes flutes, but who trained making bassoons by hand, commented to me that a wooden flute head joint is much easer to ream (multi step bore) than a bassoon joint for this reason.
But you're right, this is probably not a consideration in mass produced instruments.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2020-09-02 13:27
Ebonite is a horrible material to work with and the stink of sulphur when machining it is incredible.
Provided the pilot hole has gone through the billet in a straight line, all other drills and reamers will follow that course. The final reamer only being used to take the bore up to its finished size once all the toneholes are drilled and provisionally undercut.
Wood being a live material can move after the pilot hole has been drilled and the bore can end up banana-shaped even though the outside has been machined dead straight some time afterwards - it's entirely possible to have a wonky bore and straight outside shape as the entire billet can still warp once the pilot hole has been drilled, then mounting the ends of the billet between centres will true up the outside but won't do anything for the bore. Cor anglais top joints are often like this as things have moved from drilling the pilot hole to turning the outer diameter.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Enatural
Date: 2020-09-02 14:46
So, I looked at a photo of a pair of Rossi clarinets. They do not have the alternate right hand touch piece for C#/G#. I know not all model's are the same perhaps others do.
On two of my unibody clarinets the Bb FB, and the Eb have right hand touch pieces that operate the articulated key work to open the pad.
The other an Eb FB has two separate C#/G# keys. The right hand pad is positioned a little higher up the back of the body, so perhaps it is an alt F key. Obviously one or the other, or both keys can be opened at the same time so I have a choice of notes.
The normal C#/G# key is interlocked by the RH ring linking mechanism, so if the right hand rings are down it will not open. The Alt F key is not interlocked and can be opened at any time.
Roy
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