 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Mike_T_Snyder
Date: 2014-07-07 08:05
Hello Bb forums! I have a question about a high school project I am considering working on.
For honors band each year I have to complete a project of my own choice. I think a good idea would be to compile about 25 works for the clarinet, both from the standard repertoire and those more obscure, embodying various musical styles (Pre 1920s, since it has to be public domain) then write a short biography about each composer and a lengthy historical background of each piece.
The pieces would show a variety of musical and technical skill, and since the sheet music would be included, they would all be public domain. I think this would be an interesting project and a useful resource for clarinet students who want a better understanding of the pieces they're studying. I often find that historical background is useful for interpretation and a background of the author is interesting and instructive.
I'd like the AFOREMENTIONED MUSICAL PIECES to demonstrate a variety of structure and style. (Not only varied composers but also different types of pieces, like quintets, sonatas, concertos) I'd of course like to include some standard repertoire like Weber and Mozart, but I'd like to show a variety of styles and choose songs that even experienced teachers would find new and interesting.
So the point of my thread is: Which pieces would do best? These are the pieces I'm thinking about. I've worked on all of them except the Brahms 2, Brahms and Mozart Quintet, Spohr Concerto 3 and Poulenc, and of course listened to each of them and read about most of them. I also have some questions.
1) Are the Brahms sonatas considered one work, since they're both Opus 120?
2) I was thinking I should have at least one Spohr concerto, if not all four. Any of these concertos particularly noteworthy? Is four too many?
Here are some songs I was considering.
I also ranked them in three categories, which I may or may not include in the project and are most likely incorrect. Because I'm me.
Noteworthy (N), Standard Repertoire (SR), Essential (E)
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Brahms: Clarinet Sonatas Nos. 1/2 SR
Brahms: Clarinet Quintet SR
Crusell: Clarinet Concerto No. 3 N
Debussy: Premiere Rhapsody SR
Kuffner (Previously believed to be written by Weber): Introduction, Theme and Variations N
Messager: Solo de Concours SR
Mozart: Clarinet Quintet E
Mozart: Clarinet Concerto E
Poulenc: Clarinet Sonata SR (Is this public domain?)
Rossini: Introduction, Theme and Variations E
Saint-Saens: Clarinet Sonata SR
Spohr: Clarinet Concerto No. 1 SR
Spohr: Clarinet Concerto No. 2 SR
Spohr: Clarinet Concerto No. 3 SR
Spohr: Potpourri on a Theme from Peter von Winter N (I'm very sure about including this work, despite its obscurity it is a wonderful piece)
Spohr: Clarinet Concerto No. 4 SR
Stamitz: Clarinet Concerto No. 3 SR
Stravinsky: Three Pieces N
Weber: Clarinet Concertino E
Weber: Clarinet Concerto No. 1 E
Weber: Clarinet Concerto No. 2 E
Weber: Variations on a Theme from Silvana N
Weber: Clarinet Quintet SR
Weber: Grand Duo Concertant SR
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...I probably should have something Krommer, shouldn't I? A lot of Weber and Spohr, too...
Anything to add? Thanks for reading through this excessively lengthy post, if you made it through! Any website for musical analysis or historical background wound also be appreciated!
Post Edited (2014-07-07 08:36)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2014-07-07 08:17
Mike_T_Snyder wrote:
> Here are some songs I was considering.
Song: (sông, 'so[ng]) - a short musical composition with words
Your list contains pieces, selections, works, compositions, etc...
But definitely not "songs" ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif) ...GBK
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Author: Mike_T_Snyder
Date: 2014-07-07 08:20
I most profusely apologize. Yes, a song is "a short metrical composition intended or adapted for singing, especially one in rhymed stanzas" (thanks google).
I have listed some pieces, selections, works, compositions, etc... i am considering.
I'll edit my post so no one gets confused.
Post Edited (2014-07-07 08:20)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2014-07-07 15:47
You have bitten off more than you can chew. This could be a graduate-school project or even a master's thesis.
The big problem is justifying each choice -- why this rather than something else -- an then writing something interesting about each choice. This means more than simply copying Wikipedia entries on each composer.
Also, everything you list is standard repertoire, and the Poulenc Sonata is the only 20th century item.
This needs a lot more thought, in consultation with the teacher for whom you will be writing the paper.
Ken Shaw
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Author: tiagocunha
Date: 2014-07-07 17:08
I think that it's an excellent idea. Isn't the Nielsen Concerto public domain in the US?
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Author: TJTG
Date: 2014-07-07 17:31
I'm also curious what the your difference is between standard repertoire and essential repertoire. I think a list of 10 works by 10 different composers would be a greater learning experience. The greatest redundancy being Weber....
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Author: Mike_T_Snyder
Date: 2014-07-07 22:18
"The big problem is justifying each choice -- why this rather than something else"
Sorry, while I did highlight that I'd like my list to show a variety of style, I didn't mean I'd write why each piece stands out from each the others (it actually looks like I meant that now that I look at it). I didn't really expect to write an encyclopedia on it, just a brief page biography for each composer and a longer description of what inspired each piece, who it was written for, a basic analysis of musical form (nothing too complex), et cetera. I can see why you think this might me too big of a project, even though I have until next June to hand it in. Maybe 10 songs, each by a different composer, would be better? That's a much better idea, TJTG, especially since the choices will stand out from each other more.
"Also, everything you list is standard repertoire, and the Poulenc Sonata is the only 20th century item."
I haven't been studying the clarinet seriously for too long, but are you sure the Spohr Potpourri and Kuffner Introduction, Theme and Variations are Standard Repertoire? My instructor said she's never even heard of them, even when I had the sheet music, and she was taught by Naomi Drucker for many years. Also, everything needs to be public domain, so what 20th century items can I use? Nielsen is a good choice and public domain. I checked, Poulenc isn't public domain in the US, and even though I could get the sheet music for it online, it would be from Canada where public domain is only 50 years, and that's illegal in the US. I could just buy it, but then I couldn't include the sheet music in my project. Any other ideas? I don't know much about 20th century music, although it is true it was VERY important for the clarinet, so I see your point.
"This needs a lot more thought, in consultation with the teacher for whom you will be writing the paper."
I absolutely agree. I just thought of this idea a few days ago, and just wanted to see is you guys had any advice on the variety of my choices and the idea as a whole. My only resources right now for consulting with a teacher, since it's the summer, are my private instructor and this website. My next meeting with her is tomorrow, so I'll bring it up if we have time. Any changes you think are necessary?
"This means more than simply copying Wikipedia entries on each composer."
I've actually done a lot of research on this. Not for this project in particular, I just find it interesting. I'm actually reading Spohr's autobiography right now. I know what you mean, though; a project this complex requires much more research than a cursory glance at each composer.
"I'm also curious what the your difference is between standard repertoire and essential repertoire."
That was pretty vague of me, wasn't it? I meant that essential repertoire are the standard repertoire songs every clarinetist should know, since they were either very famous and/or made a huge impact in the history of clarinet music. Even though Solo de Concours is a famous piece, it didn't impact the world of clarinet like the Mozart Concerto and isn't nearly as well known. For example, this probably means I should change Spohr 1 to essential, since Hermstedt did have to add keys to be able to perform the sheer technical capabilities this piece required of him, leading to the evolution to the modern clarinet. I guess that distinction is kind of hard to draw a line on though.
So, if we have to reduce the LISZT to ten songs, each by a different composer...
Well, here's 12 songs, 2 by Spohr. Can someone help me decide?
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Brahms: Clarinet Quintet
Debussy: Premiere Rhapsody?
Messager: Solo de Concours
Molter: Clarinet Concerto
Mozart: Clarinet Concerto
Nielsen: Clarinet Concerto
Rossini: Introduction, Theme and Variations
Saint-Saëns: Clarinet Sonata
Spohr: Clarinet Concerto 1 and/or Potpourri (I can't decide)
Stravinsky: Three Pieces
Weber: Concertino? This is a hard decision.
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Any advice? I really having trouble reducing this list to 10. I should probably have an unaccompanied solo clarinet piece, hence the stravinsky, even though I'm not his biggest fan. This is actually the only famous pre-1920 unaccompanied clarinet solo I know of. Any other ideas would be appreciated. Trouble especially picking two of the following: Debussy, Stravinsky, and Molter. Also I love all of Spohr and Weber's compositions, so I suppose I'm too biased for that... Spohr 1 is historically important, but I have no other Potpourris and this is an interesting type of music I'd like to research. And I'll probably compare the original manuscripts and the Bärmann version everyone plays, and discuss how this changed the piece, etc., so I chose Concertino because I could compare both versions, since Concertino is relatively short, and of course because it's absurdly famous...
Any ideas?
Thanks so much for responding, I appreciate your help!
Post Edited (2014-07-07 23:38)
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Author: personwithaclarinet
Date: 2014-07-07 22:59
I have no advice to give but I think this sounds like a great project, and at whatever level you do it your compilation will be useful. Good luck.
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Author: nbclarinet
Date: 2014-07-08 01:33
I think the issue here is that you are trying to reduce an entire history of compositions for the clarinet to only 10 works. I can think of dozens of pieces that one could argue belong on the list of essential works.
As an alternative you might consider choosing three or so works and really digging into them instead of trying to cover the entire standard repertoire. Just for example you could do Mozart, one of the Brahms sonatas or the quintet, and then Nielsen. That covers three very distinct musical periods, and IMO all three of the above works are considered essential within the clarinet repertoire.
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Author: sax panther
Date: 2014-07-08 01:47
I think NBclarinet 's advice is good - less works, in more detail. Show that you really understand the music. I once had to write an essay comparing the Brahms and Mozart quintets, which was really interesting. You could do the same with two concertos, or sonatas, or unaccompanied pieces...
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2014-07-11 03:00
I wouldn't obsess too much over the list. This is a high school project and, it seems to me, the primary objective should be for you to have a good learning experience. A manageable number of works and composers that interest you for whatever reason should fit the bill.
Two comments I would make on your short list, though: (1) Molter wrote at least 6 concertos for clarinet, (2) Rossini probably did not write the Introduction, Theme and Variations.
Might be interesting to write about works that were incorrectly attributed for years, trace the scholarship that uncovered the truth and write about the actual composers, who tend to be less well-known than the composer originally credited for the work. (No one knows who actually wrote the "Rossini" but, in this case, you could discuss speculation regarding the actual composer(s).)
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: tylerleecutts
Date: 2014-07-11 05:30
I agree with JNK- a good research project doesn't have to belong to college or graduate school. Any young mind with the right resources can put together a finished product that is quite impressive- I have seen it with students and classmates. Never let someone bring your aspirations down, ever. The best thing you can do is go to your local library (and possibly your local university) for necessary research materials on every composer you wish to include, as well as possible historical musical surveys on the time period(s) of the composers for needed context.
You could theme the project as how the clarinet grew and matured into its current form through both innovation and through the repertoire pushing the instrument to its limits. This would of course need materials regarding instrument history, acoustics and manufacturing.
Never use the phrase "it's just a ____". The word "just" removes significance from what you're doing. A high-school student can innovate, invent and research as well as anyone else with the right tools and resources. This may be a high school project, but the only one who limits what it could be is yourself.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2014-07-11 06:30
Tyler,
The words "innovate, invent and research" each have exceeding different meaning. Are you sure this is what you mean to say?
And what are "the right tools and resources?" Also, be careful with your use of anthropomorphic descriptions (clarinets do not grow).
HRL
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Author: tylerleecutts
Date: 2014-07-11 23:03
I mean to say that not only collegiate level and post-collegiate level people can produce excellent results. I was simply stating that this young man could put together a very impressive research project, in spite of being a high school student.
I am aware of the anthropomorphic meaning of "grow"- I was using these words to describe the technological progression of the instrument into its present state(s) (German, French, etc.). Of course I am not attributing anthropomorphic things to the clarinet literally; rather, I am speaking figuratively.
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Author: Bennett ★2017
Date: 2014-07-13 00:20
Before embarking on some of the more esoteric topics suggested above, I think Mike T (the original poster) should consider what written resources are available to him. Some of the topics require access to scholarly journals (not always in English) that can only be found in large research universities, music conservatories or through JSTOR. Perhaps begin by flipping through Eric Hoeprich's The Clarinet (http://bit.ly/1kixoda available here http://bit.ly/1kiy1nd (scroll down)
My advice: discuss the topic with the teacher who will supervise (and grade it) before beginning.
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Author: Green Henry
Date: 2020-07-17 08:53
Dear Mr Snyder
This was a while ago now. I hope you completed your project, which sounds interesting. I thought you responded gracefully and more politely than I could have to some of the dismissive comments!
I came across the post while I was looking for some ideas for a solo piece to learn while I'm on holiday. I might have a look at the Stravinsky, but I wanted to ask: did you add more true solo pieces? Do you have any suggestions I could investigate?
Henry
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2020-07-20 20:47
Henry, I see that no one has responded to your question. I wonder how many people have actually seen it. I think you would have better luck getting recommendations if you started a new thread, gave an indication of your playing level, e.g., what is your background and what works are you comfortable with. (I did search out some of your other posts. I see you are an "adult starter" who has been playing for around 4 years. Many board members who might have recommendations will probably not have that information.)
In the meantime, here are a couple of links you could check out:
Jenny Maclay, has written a book that examines unaccompanied clarinet repertoire and is apparently soon to be published. I think that's what she did for her Doctoral research paper at the University of Montreal. The link below is to an entry in her blog.
https://jennyclarinet.com/2018/02/20-unaccompanied-clarinet-works-20th-century/
All of the works on her list are (IMO) advanced and most are for professional-level clarinetists. There are also a few recommendations in the comments that follow her list. Again, IMO, while there may be some disagreement about which works belong or don't belong in the "top 20," all of the works in her list are important in the repertoire. You can find recordings of most, if not all of them on Spotify or in the Naxos Music Library, YouTube or any of the other music streaming services that have a large classical component.
Gary Van Cott was once a fairly frequent contributor to this Board. His initial foray into selling a few works for clarinet has grown into one of the best sources of clarinet sheet music (and recordings) on the web. One reason for this is the excellent personalized service he gives. The link below is to the works that he has available for unaccompanied clarinet. This is an annotated list that gives a brief description of each piece and almost always indicates the skill level appropriate to the music. He also often includes links to recordings of the music.
https://vcisinc.com/clarinetmusicsolo.htm
Given what I think is your current level, I would first look at "early college level" works in Van Cott's list. From Jenny Maclay's list, I think the works you might find most within your reach would include the ones by Malcolm Arnold, Louis Cahuzac, and Heinrich Sutermeister. Sutermeister might be a stretch. I would rate it at the same level as Stravinsky. I would rate all the other pieces on her list as more difficult (in some cases, way more difficult) than Stravinsky.
A few more pieces that I think might be within your reach (you should be able to find recordings to stream online) are:
Willson Osborne, Rhapsody
Jorgen Bentzon, Tema med Variationer
Kalman Opperman, Un Seul
Paul Harvey, Three Etudes on Themes of Gershwin (jazzy fun piece, look for the recording by Gervaise de Peyer)
Erland von Koch, Monolog 3
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Green Henry
Date: 2020-07-21 09:14
Dear Mr Kissinger
Thank you very much for taking the time to reply to my post!
I realised that it was rather an old thread and might be quiet, but I was also intrigued with the author's idea and interested to know how he got on.
Your lists all look interesting and useful: like the old saying "teach a man to fish...", this is more a case of "show an aspiring fisherman a great place to cast his line"! The Gary Van Cott site looks particularly promising - I'm happy to pay for music and advice, perhaps with all the free stuff "the bad drives out the good" a little.
All the best and once again, thank you for all your help
Henry
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