 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Smith.Clari
Date: 2020-06-06 07:10
Hi everyone--
I've been working on my fundamentals lately, and one thing I've noticed in my playing is that sometimes my sound becomes unresponsive or shrill (especially in the altissimo) because I'm biting...especially when I'm tired.
I'm comfortable with my setup and have been trying double lip, but switching back to single lip, my lower jaw keeps moving upward (i.e. biting) every time I go up in register.
Are there other exercises/ mental images/ tricks you use to keep your lower jaw from moving?
Thank you and I hope you're all staying safe!
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-06-06 07:35
Like any exploration of an issue, it is best to analyze slowly. Maybe start with a comfortable non-biting note like open "G," then as you consciously internalize how that is feeling and sounding, skip up an octave purposely keeping your embouchure and jaw in the same configuration.......it really is just a matter of pushing a bit more air. Then move up from that "G" sitting on the staff to the "C" on the second ledger line same feeling. Then to the "E" on the third ledger line; then the "G" on the fourth. I think skipping octaves, fifths and thirds will make comparison easier (you might lose sight of the relaxed feel if you just go up scale-wise one note at a time).
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Robert N.
Date: 2020-06-06 07:50
Here are some interesting thoughts and exercises:
https://youtu.be/XYBzMOm7EJQ
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Author: BethGraham
Date: 2020-06-06 17:23
So helpful -- thanks! (The video posted above)
Fedele says he's keeping his voicing the same on that "covered F" and the low notes, but I'm noticing something going on with his throat. Is he changing something and, if so, can someone describe what's going on?
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Author: Ed
Date: 2020-06-06 18:00
It would look to me as if he is changing the voicing/tongue position.
Paul mentions starting on a "non biting" note such as open G. I would lean towards using e which has a couple of fingers down. Some people feel a bit less secure on g with the lack of fingers to stabilize the instrument and bear down a little on the embouchure. Experiment to see what feels best for you.
One thing to consider- the lower register can be very forgiving and the notes will come out easily even with overly relaxed embouchure or less air, low tongue position. You might focus a bit on finding the right air speed and higher tongue placement by finding the spot where the high register speaks easily. Be sure to have enough reed in your mouth. Then try to work the lower register keeping that position and find the ideal spot where you can jump registers with no manipulation or change.
Years ago I recall for a short while a self published method book that I saw advertised in the journals that advocated starting players in the high register, perhaps high C. I believe the theory was that the air and embouchure would be easily established, making the rest of the instrument easier. I think there is a good kernel of an idea there which could be helpful, although I will say that sitting in a room with a beginning clarinet class might be a challenge!
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2020-06-06 18:08
BethGraham wrote:
> Fedele says he's keeping his voicing the same on that "covered
> F" and the low notes, but I'm noticing something going on with
> his throat. Is he changing something and, if so, can someone
> describe what's going on?
A lot that we do to control the sound is done unconsciously. It does look like his neck is widening, which suggests something is changing in muscles around his throat. It's one of those physical reactions to the instrument that a player needs to find for himself more or less autonomically. It's a sort of application of Professor Harold Hill's "Think System ."
One really basic thing that can cause biting that increases as you go higher is using too soft reeds. The main symptom of too soft a reed is that it goes flat in pitch at higher frequencies. If you put more pressure on the reed, the pitch will improve, but at the costs of eventually closing the reed and, probably, irritating your lip. It isn't by any means the only explanation, but one possibility. The problem is hard to notice because the increased pressure - biting - may not be a conscious effort, but an unconscious result of trying to stay in tune. Try not to use reeds past their useful life. Don't for the time being try to play on reeds that only "good enough for practicing" but try to practice on reeds that actually feel good.
Of course, double lip can be used as a way of improving a single lip approach. The goal after playing for a few minutes with double lip is to try to duplicate everything you felt with DL when you go back to SL. That includes pulling your upper lip back, but against your upper teeth instead of under them. Lots of good players don't do this with their upper lips, but it can help to control the mouthpiece without gripping it with your jaw, which also can lead to biting.
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-06-06 18:45
Gosh, I don't know Karl, to me the basic cause of biting is using reeds that are too hard. What many of us do (and I mean MANY OF US) is to use a reed that is harder than we need and squeeze (read "bite") it down to create a smaller tip opening. This artificially gives us the "control" without the flexibility that you see in the video.
If you can't hop around octaves (and beyond) like you see in the video.....THAT'S your problem!
............Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2020-06-06 19:21
Paul Aviles wrote:
> Gosh, I don't know Karl, to me the basic cause of biting is
> using reeds that are too hard. What many of us do (and I mean
> MANY OF US) is to use a reed that is harder than we need and
> squeeze (read "bite") it down to create a smaller tip opening.
> This artificially gives us the "control" without the
> flexibility that you see in the video.
>
Well, sure, that's the other end of the problem. Too hard causes biting just to get the reed to play. But I've often had students who are completely unable to produce anything above F5 or at best a flabby, flat G5. I ask, how old is your reed? The answer, I don't know. When I have them switch even to a fresh reed of the same strength, the upper clarion suddenly becomes possible.
If I play-test reeds or a mouthpiece with too soft a reed, the first thing I notice is that I start *unconsciously* to put more pressure on the reed to keep it tune above G5. I think biting can come from both directions. I didn't say, after all, that soft reeds were the only possible cause (in fact, I explicitly said the opposite).
>
> If you can't hop around octaves (and beyond) like you see in
> the video.....THAT'S your problem!
What is? Too hard a reed. Like any other problem on a clarinet, there can be a number of causes, of which too hard a reed may be one.
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-06-06 19:53
Yes, too hard a reed and substituting the "flexion" of the reed for variance in air pressue.
I can explain the "Henry Hill" affect above.
There are two ways to increase air speed and both are correct.
1) Push more air from your core
2) Decrease the aperture (same amount of air moves faster)
You can do this in the mouth or the "throat" (back of the tongue.......only giraffes have muscles in their throats.
...............Paul Aviles
P.S. Old reeds become non-compliant......not softer
Post Edited (2020-06-06 20:00)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2020-06-06 20:45
Paul Aviles wrote:
> I can explain the "Henry Hill" affect above.
>
*Harold* Hill (from The Music Man).
Karl
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Author: BethGraham
Date: 2020-06-06 23:04
kdk wrote:
"But I've often had students who are completely unable to produce anything above F5 or at best a flabby, flat G5. I ask, how old is your reed? The answer, I don't know. When I have them switch even to a fresh reed of the same strength, the upper clarion suddenly becomes possible."
Which begs the question: How do you tell if your reed is too old? How do you know when you'd benefit from switching to a new reed?
(I could start a new thread for this side-conversation if you'd like. Tangentially, reeds are the bane of my existence.)
Post Edited (2020-06-07 05:47)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2020-06-06 23:22
BethGraham wrote:
> Which begs the question: How do you tell if your reed is too
> old?
Partly experience. Partly the frustrated feeling that nothing seems to be working when you're using it. IMO changing the reed out should be your first reaction when you think you're doing everything the way you did it yesterday, it worked then and today it isn't working.
> How do you know when you'd benefit from switching to a new
> reed?
>
By trying a different one. It will either make an immediate improvement or it won't.
These sound a little snarky - I don't mean them to be. Over time (lots of it) you tend to develop a concept of what a good, or at least serviceable, reed feels and sounds like, and when the reed you're trying to play doesn't match it, trying a different reed is just too easy an attempt at a solution to pass up.
Apart from frustration, the problem with persisting with an unresponsive reed (whether it's old and worn or new and just not good) is the bad habits you can get into trying to compensate or adapt. If you can't play on a reed comfortably, put it aside long enough to see if a different reed works better.
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-06-07 07:31
What I would say about cane reeds is that I have always rotated through a full box of ten reeds at a time. This usually means seven to eight reeds that I actually rotate through.....the remainders are usually not good. I'd use one reed per day, move to the next. This works great for about a month and a half (maybe longer.....sometimes less) before the reeds begin to sound/feel brittle (edgy sound; less resonance). Hopefully, I have already started a three to four day break-in process for the next box. When the next set is ready I toss the previous box.
Rotating is a necessity for being able to make any sort of judgement about the efficacy of a single reed. Some younger students (usually with the excuse of a limited budget) choose to use a single reed at a time. This causes one to become accustomed to that one reed.......and you adjust to its downward progress to oblivion. Then you are faced with adapting to a new reed which becomes a formidable obstacle.
Don't do that.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: Erez Katz
Date: 2020-06-07 09:47
I found that same goes for Legere. They are consistent within a certain margin, but I had #3 reeds that were harder than #3.25. A bit of sanding on 500 and 1000 grit sandpaper usually fixes it for me.
As they wear with use, their characteristics change, so I rotate them for the same reason just as cane.
As for biting, the original topic, I had developed that bad habit last year and it became almost instinctive. The only way I was able to stop it was switching to double lip embouchure. The process revealed to me that I was biting to control the pitch at the upper registers. There is a whole discussion about double lip embouchure so I won't reiterate it here.
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Author: BethGraham
Date: 2020-06-07 19:40
Tony Pay wrote:
> We learn so much.
Isn't that the truth, Tony, and I'm so appreciative of the forum members who are willing to meet folks where they are in their learning and take the time to offer suggestions. Thank you.
To Karl: I detected no snark in your response yesterday. Thanks for the info! I think you're spot on about my needing time to develop a concept of what a good reed sounds like and feels like.
Paul: Thanks for the reminder about rotating reeds. I generally have four or five on the go, in two different strengths, since I'm trying to figure out which strength is most appropriate for where I am right now. (That is, I have a group of 3s and a group of 3.5s, and I practice for half a session with one strength and half with the other. Betwixt and between, I am.)
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Author: JTJC
Date: 2020-06-07 20:58
We’re certainly learning a bit more each time about one contributor to this BB.
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Author: EbClarinet
Date: 2020-06-11 21:28
Not all biting is bad! Especially in the altissimo register. I no longer have 2 bite because I have a new R13 and I can easily play an altissimo C# w/o biting. On my Selmer Signet, I had to bite 2 get the high A and Bb out. In order 2 play in tune on my eefer, I HAVE 2 bite for the high G and G#. It seems like u're concerned about this in the altissimo register only, so just make sure that u're n tune with the ensemble when on those notes.
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/mbtldsongministry/
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