 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ruben
Date: 2020-01-31 14:03
I don't believe in thwarting anybody's dream(s)but the situation is so hard these days for anybody wanting to become a full-time musician. Orchestras in Europe are folding or merging, military bands are closing. Plus there is the danger of being over-qualified: a young person may attend Julliard at great cost and efforts and end up teaching band at a junior High School or playing bugle calls with a minor military band. A friend of mine went to Julliard and the University of Southern California and now plays in the Paris Metro (subway)! So, would you preach realism or tell a youngster to follow his dream? If you're Vengerov or Trifonov, you still have a fighting chance, but how many of us are?
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
Post Edited (2020-01-31 22:53)
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-01-31 15:31
I think that what has worked very well for my son is being in a community orchestra and getting to know real musicians - I mean some who have made music their careers. I think that seeing what their lives are, and have been has given him a very clear idea of what he would have to look forward to if he went down a musical path.
Conversely he also knows adults in other careers who have very fulfilling amateur musical experience, and so he knows what that looks like too.
Looking at it through my own eyes, I think that some people are just born to be musicians, and if they have to take that route then they have to. For example I have a relative who did a degree in economics before finally giving up the fight and becoming a musician professionally. Letting these people see older musicians who have lived that life gives them a very good idea of what they are going to need to do to survive, so they can make the choice with their eyes open.
In general then - I don't think you need to discourage it, but it is very good to get these children out amongst adults in the same field so they can honestly assess whether they want that life and take the necessary steps to survive and enjoy it if they do.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2020-01-31 17:36
Ruben,
Thanks for making the changes in your original post. IMHO you've shown a great deal of character in doing so.
Regards,
HRL
Post Edited (2020-01-31 23:03)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2020-01-31 18:55
Read my page, "follow your dreams" on my website. That's what I told my students. eddiesclarinet.com.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2020-01-31 19:36
Never!
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2020-01-31 19:40
Love of music and talent for it doesn't exempt one from responsibility to self and family. If you plan to live to a ripe old age, you need a retirement fund. If you have kids and a family, their needs come first. You can't make them suffer for your "dreams." If that means taking a day job (most likely unrelated to music) for the "benefits," then so be it.
Post Edited (2020-01-31 20:55)
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2020-01-31 20:05
No, I wouldn't discourage a youngster from taking up a career in music, but I would be sure the child knew that the field is much larger than sitting second chair in a classical orchestra. Clarinet can fit into any type of musical group. Too often it is implied (through training or omission) to youngsters that if they pick up instrument X, that their choices are A and/or B music, when there's really no limit.
I also would encourage the youngster to plan on following other types of income in addition to music.
I doubt anyone would question whether Bing Crosby or Louis Armstrong were professional musicians, yet they also made quite a tidy sum acting (the same could be said of many current/historical pop singers - movies, tv, clothing lines, investments), etc.
Also, music industry jobs are fairly plentiful (though sometimes highly competitive). Tech jobs are useful and desired in the music industry, as are app developers, etc. In many cases, a background playing music could help in those careers as well.
Fuzzy
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Author: ruben
Date: 2020-01-31 20:11
Hank: I'm sorry. It was in very bad taste. I apologize.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: ruben
Date: 2020-01-31 20:17
The trumpeter Mark Gould advises his students to be as versatile as possible: playing in brass bands, Latin music, pop, shows. In Europe, being versatile these last 40 years or so has meant playing a lot of Baroque music: which represents almost 50 per cent of the Classical music "market" here in France. But this leaves clarinetists out.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Hurstfarm
Date: 2020-01-31 20:23
Q: What’s the difference between an amateur musician and a professional?
A: An amateur earns more money.
That may be the reality for many, but alongside realistic advice we should provide every encouragement to the next generation of musicians to begin the journey and see where it takes them.
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Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2020-01-31 20:46
To me, it’s as simple as this: with many other jobs, I can make a lot more than in any place in the professional musician’s world I could possibly be in. This is certainly exemplified by many people I know, even if you’re exceptionally talented (which I am not), there’s just too few really good jobs on the market.
A guy I know that I cannot help but call a brilliant teacher still has to put up with mediocre orchestras and some really bad students, despite his skills. There’s a few people like him, I‘d imagine.
Likewise, it wouldn’t seem that being a repair tech makes you rich or work below 40h a week. At least there’s quite a demand for good repair techs, as fewer people seem to bother learning a trade nowadays.
So I guess it’s much better to be a dentist and do music in one‘s free time
Well, even that earns you as much as it used to, at least here in Germany...! Rest assured though, there’s currently a 0% chance that any repair tech job (something I could see myself doing) I could think of that has any advantages over my job. Simple math, eh?
Best regards
Christian
PS: Look at Micheal Lowenstern: despite being talented, resourceful and knowledgeable, he can’t just live off music vids, review and gigs and actually has a job at Amazon (not a bad one either, as I understood). Of course there’s musical geniuses that just need to become full-time musicians in one way or another - but they’re rare!!!
Post Edited (2020-01-31 20:54)
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Author: JEG ★2017
Date: 2020-01-31 22:15
I had a sort-of successful career in music in the 70s and 80s before I became discouraged and quit in my mid-30s. Looking back I realized that I didn't work nearly hard enough to be in the running to land a decently-paying professional job. I was lucky enough to then study computer programming and have had well-paying jobs since 1986. After not playing for twelve years the bug bit me again about 20 years ago and I've been playing ever since. Now I play in community orchestras and occasional other stuff.
I retired a month ago after 34 years in IT and have a decent 401k to fall back on thanks to that. And now that I'm retired I'm practicing 2-3 hours a day.
I would suggest to aspiring musicians that they work as hard as possible but be prepared for the likelihood that they might fall short of their goals. And in that case, try to have another profession in mind. And if they don't succeed they shouldn't drive themselves crazy thinking of themselves as failures. If they worked hard they have nothing to be ashamed of.
Getting a really full-time job in the performance area, such as playing in a major orchestra is about as likely as becoming a major league baseball player. Many aspire but few succeed.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2020-01-31 22:28
Kalash; you're right about repair people not having time to play. I've known quite a few that were excellent players and now don't play at all for want of time. Another case of the cobbler's son always going going barefoot!
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Ed
Date: 2020-02-01 01:29
I don't know if I would discourage a young player, but would certainly try to make them aware of the realities of the business. It may be possible to have some career in music, but being a full time performer may not be a reality. A young player should be aware and prepared to find what avenues he/she would enjoy and still manage to make a living.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2020-02-01 02:04
Ed: eminently sensible! One point that hasn't been raised is what to do in the event of injury. All the more reason for a musician to have a back-up plan. Of course, a tax collector or chartered accountant can also be injured, but a musician is best compared to an athlete in this respect: requiring optimum physical form.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2020-02-01 09:05
I wouldn't discourage a young person, but I wouldn't lie either. To make it as a performer--symphony or otherwise-- you have to be both great (how many 100s of thousands are there on ANY instrument?) AND lucky.
When I studied with Russianoff in the '70s he said he advises all of his students (I counted 44 at the time) to get their education credits & teaching certificate.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
Post Edited (2020-02-01 09:06)
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Author: Ed
Date: 2020-02-01 17:55
Yes, getting education certification is one option. Certainly working in a public school system would give you a range of benefits- steady paycheck, retirement, health insurance, etc. At the same time, teaching can be a tough gig and a person would need to have the desire and temperament to do it. Lacking that, it could be a long and painful career and would do no service to the students.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2020-02-01 19:12
I posted above about reading my article on my website but I want to add this. When I went to Aspen at age 19, the clarinet teacher Earl Bates told me I'd never become a profesional clarinet player. I was playing sax, flute and oboe too at the time. I feel in love with orchestra playing that summer so I sold my sax and flute, didn't own an oboe yet, and bought a bass and Eb clarinet, practiced my butt off, switched teachers to Leon Russianoff, been studying with Eric Simon for three years already, and guess what? Got my first job playing second in the Halifax Symphony in Nova Scotia out of school, then bass and clarinet in the Baltimore Symphony the next year and principal in the Eastern Music Festival a few years later for the summers. Ended up also getting a teaching position at Towson University and Peabody Conservatory. Not bad for you'll never become a professional clarinet player.
So as i stated in my article "Follow your dreams", there's more than just saying yes or no. Read the article to your students, or copy it. Many have asked me permission to use it and my answer has always been, of course.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2020-02-01 23:08
My son considered becoming a professional musician. He had no interest in teaching and didn't have a great history at practicing. And he has lots of competing interests. So we advised against it I wouldn't say tried to talk him out of it and he still could decide later to go down that road.
He plays in the college orchestra, is taking music theory, and may end up with a career that uses his musical talents.
Steve Ocone
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Author: ruben
Date: 2020-02-02 01:09
The music profession may someday become like the acting one. Actors have no steady income, no job security; often live from hand to mouth and ironically, seem to accept this as being all in the game. They also have far fewer teaching opportunities than musicians. I have known several in my life and only one that has always been steadily employed, though he's no star. The others eventually gave up and got into other walks of life (usually something involving selling. Actors need to be persuasive!)
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2020-02-02 02:01
You are definitely the exception and beat the odds. You must be an awsome player. When did you study with Russianoff?
As far as pursuing one's dream, I've been told that there are also a small number of SCUBA instructors who make a decent living (out of the maybe 100K).
I agree with Ed about needing the desire & temperament to teach (Band, etc...).
I had to change my personality to more of an "A" type...fortunately was able to.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2020-02-02 18:51
To Tom H said and asked "You are definitely the exception and beat the odds. You must be an awsome player. When did you study with Russianoff?"
I studied with him from 59-62 at the Manhattan College of Music, then kown as school of music.
As far as teaching in public school goes, not everyone is cut out for that, especially in todays environment of budget cuts. I had a student at Towson Univesity that came for his masters in music ed having played in the Army field band for over 20 years. He said he didn't want to do that all his life. After doing about a month of student teaching he told me at his lesson, after he gets his degree, one more semester, he's going back into a military band, I'm just not cut out for this he told me. I've heard that more than once. School teaching is much different than studio teaching. It depends on the school, the country and especially the kids and the level you get.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2020-02-02 20:07
ESP,
You've mentioned a very important point with the difference in school and studio teaching. As a long time HS band director and then a college professor I've taught the whole continuum from 5th grade instrumental beginners to doctoral students completing their dissertations and everything in between.
Truthfully, I loved it all. There is no greater situation then the one a teacher/professor enjoys with his or her students. I had very few days when I wished I had become a doctor like my mother wanted me to become (not that that would have been all bad).
The significant difference is that in addition to dealing with a range of students, a good bit of natural section has taken place by the time individuals get to a studio setting or heavy duty graduate study. The cream of the crop is what you deal with here. However, one does not just say "I want to teach only doctoral or studio students." One must earn their spurs first!
In my case, I am now in my 65th year of getting paid to play stuff (jazz, pit, military band, private teaching, etc.). I went the music education route but continued to keep the chops in good shape by regular practice on all my doubles as well as staying in contact with my musical pals for gigs. I do a lot of pro bono work now but that's just a nice opportunity to give something back for the gift I was given way back in junior high school.
But the road to a music career is a long and slow climb. Also, if it was easy, everyone would be doing it.
Cheers,
HRL
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2020-02-03 05:53
To Ed P. -- Yes, I've had different situations teaching public school Band. From really great to not good at all. Depends a lot on the system you're teaching in.
I did have an opportunity to join a Navy band decades ago after passing the audition. Opted to stay with teaching-- 2 months vacation instead of one, plus no basic training.
I studied with Russianoff '72-'76 through Queens College.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
Post Edited (2020-02-03 05:54)
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Author: dannydlp
Date: 2020-02-03 08:26
I have not been on this site in many years, but I've started to take up the clarinet again after a hiatus of over a decade and ran across this post as I was looking for some info on reeds. I'll share my two cents.
I went to a conservatory and graduated with a degree in clarinet performance, but realized about halfway through my college experience that I probably wasn't quite good enough to make it into an orchestra. And I didn't quite have the single-minded focus I needed to push through all the hours in the practice room I would have needed to give myself a fighting chance. Thankfully, my conservatory was a part of a larger university, so I was able to take classes there and aggressively network with alumni from the university to land a sales job at a tech company after graduation.
I spent a few years at the tech company, got my MBA from a top ten school, and then went to work for a couple years at a major management consulting firm. I got burned out from the lifestyle so recently transitioned to a role in government.
Throughout my career, I've ran into a good number of people who have also had music backgrounds. Some, like me, realized in college that they didn't want to pursue careers as performers and found their way into other fields. Others tried to make it in performance for awhile before eventually transitioning into a different field. All are well-compensated professionals that have jobs also held by people who studied fields like engineering, economics, finance, and other "high paying" majors.
All of this is to say, I wouldn't discourage anyone from going into music performance if that's what they really want to do. If someone is absolutely committed to a career in performance, no amount of persuasion from any older person will convince them otherwise. They will be willing to put up with the uncertainty, low pay, unstable jobs, long hours, and longer odds if it means they get to play music. And if they're not willing to do this, they'll eventually realize the sacrifice that music requires and will transition to a career that better suits their needs.
Choosing to major in music, study at a conservatory, or even pursue a performance career after undergrad hardly amounts to a "life sentence" in music. A person can switch paths at least into their 30's, by which point it should be abundantly clear if music is the best field in which to spend the rest of their career.
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