 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-01-15 18:36
Hi,
I wondered if anyone had compared a Bravo synthetic reed v European cut Legere signature?
I have tried both on my plastic practising clarinet and I seem to be finding the Bravo better for playing in tune on scales. I'm not sure about anything more complex as the plastic clarinet is a bit leaky so I'm not doing anything very complicated on it.
I just wondered because I hear a lot of people on here talking about the Legere reeds but never any talking about the Bravo.
Thanks,
Jen
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2020-01-15 20:00
I've tried both. the Bravo reeds seem to have changed somewhat compared to the ones I tried several years ago. They played well but were overly bright for me. Reports on the current Bravo reeds do not seem to compare them well with the sample that I played. As for the Legere European cut, I love them. They play well consistently and in tune, and you can't ask more than that. Personally I would choose the Legere over the Bravo by a long way. YMMV.
Tony F.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-01-16 22:57
That's good to know, thanks. I will keep trying the Legere then. Maybe I just haven't got to grips with it yet.
Jen
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Author: fromsfca
Date: 2020-01-17 19:48
I use Legere on bass, sometimes. I did not like them on either Bb or Eb clarinets. Primarily I didn't have the range as I did with cane, nor the intonation on the highest register (G and A octave above the staff).
I still use them sometimes on bass, when I'm playing a show and concerned the reed will dry out.
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Author: gwie
Date: 2020-01-17 21:23
Those of you at NAMM--go check out the new carbon synthetic from the Maxton folks. It's awesome!
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Author: Ken Lagace
Date: 2020-01-17 22:58
So much depends on the mouthpiece! Reed and mouthpiece MUST match - slope to facing!
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-01-19 14:12
Hi Ken,
That's really good to know. Is there a good book or something that I could read to learn how to match the reed to the facing of the mp? I'm, finding that the really good books are very hard to find out about, except by word-of-mouth on here. Then I usually have to import them from the US. If there is one, I'd be really glad to know.
Best wishes,
Jen
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Author: Ken Lagace
Date: 2020-01-19 20:34
No, there aren’t books on reed mouthpiece matching that I know of. There are hints and tid-bits mentioned in books on acoustics and pedagogy.
Here is a brief explanation on how the reed and mouthpiece work together.
There is a flat part on the mouthpiece, the ‘table’, where the reed is held by a holding mechanism, ligature, string, thumb or?
Somewhere along the way, there is a departure from the flat where some kind of curve starts. This is called the facing and is close to where the lower teeth will be placed when playing. The earlier it starts, the ‘longer’ it is.
The shape of the curve determines what shape of the cut on the reed would work best. More curve needs more weakness in the reed at that area, and less curve needs more strength. So, if the curve is gentle at the start and more curved toward the tip, the reed would be stronger at the start of the curve and weaker at toward tip, and so on.
Most reed brands have slight differences in the cut and therefore can work better on facings that compliment that particular cut better. All brands of reeds have slightly different curve dimensions as do all mouthpieces, so it takes time and experience to find the best match. It is also a good skill to know where to alter a reed for the best match. If you bite a bit and the reed stops vibrating, the tip is too stiff for the rest of the slope. If the tip vibrates no matter the what embouchure pressure is, then the slope is a bit too strong for the tip.
What is the best match?
The mouthpiece and reed need to easily play, high and low notes, loud and soft notes, and respond well. Only experimentation helps to arrive at a satisfactory combination, and when you change mouthpieces it may take weeks to find the best combination again.
I always recommend finding the reed brand with the most consistent cut and best cane, and then select a mouthpiece that fits the reed. You will then find 7-9 good reeds in a box of 10, rather than 2-3.
It is encouraging to see posts here where one post will mention bad reeds, and another will clarify that the reed/mouthpiece is bad, not the reed. A large percentage of clarinet players think the wrong way. I had a new student with a degree in clarinet performance who would try a reed, then break the tip off if it didn’t play well. That is how she was taught.
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2020-01-19 22:50
I’m very skeptical of this claim that the facing curve needs to “match” the reed curvature. Of course, the overall resistance of the reed and mouthpiece need to match for the individual player, and the facing curve is a big component of that. But I’ve seen no empirical evidence of the slope of the reed needing to in any quantifiable way reflect the curvature of the mouthpiece. The variations among reed types/shapes are so small (among cane reeds) that they are dwarfed by the variations in facing length and tip opening. Of course, this is not even getting into the huge variation in cane and how the 3-dimensional shape of the reed interacts with that.
If what Ken is saying is true, you would expect him to be able to relay combinations that work better, i.e. a Vandoren Blue Box works better with a 5RV, or a V12 works better with a B40 Lyre, etc. But to say that only experimentation helps to find the solution places such a claim about curvature marching in the realm of complete irrelevance.
Far more impactful is the player’s impact on the combination, making them more comfortable with a particular reed/mouthpiece pairing. To recognize this is tantamount to rejecting any implied “matching” on curvature alone.
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Author: Ken Lagace
Date: 2020-01-20 06:51
If a player can play on a reed/mouthpiece combination, all the basic elements, high, low, loud and soft. etc. the reed matches the curve well enough. All other elements needed are individual to the preferences of each player.
I have been making my own reeds since the early 1960. I have not tested which mouthpiece will match which reed brand/type and wouldn't want to. I fit the reed shape to whatever my mouthpiece needs.
But I do know that on my current mouthpiece, I need to take off a bit off the heart on Peter Leuthners and a bit off the tip on Pilgerstorfer Dolce's, thus changing the 'curve' of the reed to the 'curve' on my mouthpiece. And I have a 'formula' for all reeds I use regularly.
If you don't think the curve of the slope matters, here is a quantifiable way to test it.
Play a reed a until you are comfortable playing it, then, on the bark cut that is curved, cut off the 'ears' and make it a straight cut and shape the rails forming a nice slope - shaped similar to the shape of the center slope from bark to tip. Now the slope has in a very small way been straightened on the sides. But when playing the reed again, you will feel that the slope is flatter (less spongy) and that the reed lies down more easily on the facing. Curves increase tensions in the wood and Visa Versa. The flattening of the slope, even in a very minor way, has made the embouchure pressure easier, as if you flattened the facing a bit there without changing the reed.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-01-20 08:21
Don't see a reference on their website. Can you post a link to this product?
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2020-01-20 17:22
Hi Ken,
Thanks for explaining that. I had no idea the mp had so much going on. I'll have to read up a lot I think.
Best wishes,
Jen
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Author: shmuelyosef
Date: 2021-11-17 04:49
I started using the Legere reeds in 2014 on clarinet when they were still called the Legere Clarinet Reed; found a strength that worked. From there, I quickly discovered that the tenor reed (the early design) was awesome for rock and roll, and seemed to last forever.
Over the last 5 years, I have completely switched over to Legere reeds. That includes Bb and Bass Clarinet, and all the four primary saxophones (SATB). I play in rock bands as well as traditional big bands, and some other section work.
I started with the Classic reeds (all that was available), and still use these on Baritone Sax as the more advanced variants get buzzy, but have abandoned the Classics otherwise.
I have been using the Signature reeds on soprano, alto, tenor and bass clarinet, for big band rehearsals and gigs.
Clarinet remains the most difficult; fortunately, I have a lot mouthpieces (collected over years) and several different clarinet designs. I find that the difference between the Signature and Euro signature are pretty useful to fit the right reed to them, but a small set (10-15%) of my mouthpieces don't seem to work with the Legere reeds.
The Euro reeds are more flexible and great with larger tip openings and longer lays. The "non-denominational" Signature reeds work really well with small openings and seem agnostic to lay length. As with ordinary reeds there does seem to be some sensitivity to the resistance of the clarinet. My large bore Selmers (S9 and CT) really shine with these reeds when paired with the right mpc. I have had some difficulty finding a good match for my Yamaha SEV, but am working through that now with some non-intuitive solutions. In-between are my foul-weather clarinets (Vito V40 and 7214) but also solutions have been found.
I have also collected a few "American Cut" reeds (for tenor and alto), and they are very impressive. Can't wait to try the bari "american cut when available. Might replace the Classics that are finally wearing out (some of these bari reeds are 3 years old but still playing...sort of...I used to blow through 2-3 cane reeds on bari every month).
I have tried the Bravo (from California) and it is well behind the Legere team in finessing this type of product.
...and yes, Jen, there is a lot going on with mouthpieces...
Jeff
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2021-11-17 06:56
i was using legere on alto and bass clarinet till i took sunnydaze suggestion and tried bravo reeds. i have since switched to bravo. bravo behaves like a good cane reed for me while the legere always felt synthetic but played well. i wish bravo had more size and strength options tho as i have to use a closed tip on bass and cant use my bay mpc as its pretty open. the no2 tenor sax is still too stiff for me but works well on my hite . the price of bravo reeds are a huge bargin also.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2021-11-17 09:32
Hi super20dan,
It's interesting to know that you use a hite mp too. I play a hite E on my clarinet. I'm really glad you like the bravo reed. I do too. Though I'm back on vandorden classic at the moment.
Jen
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2021-11-17 17:48
i have had execellent results with ever hite mpc i have owned. soprano sax alto and tenor sax -all play execellent and cost was moderate. i have one for eb clarinet and its great also. i bought the bass model when i got back into playing and discovered my vandy b46 was too big a tip and i no longer had the wind for it. got a great deal on a new hite on ebay for only 70$ and i am very happy with it. it is better in the altisimo than any other bass mpc i have played. if i ever see an alto clarinet one i will prob grab it.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2021-11-17 18:01
Hi super20dan,
That's great that you like them too. I tried a dozen mps in my local shop and none of them come near the hite for me. It just seems as though it was made to fit me.
Jen
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