 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: r small
Date: 2019-12-05 03:10
I've heard different opinions on this. On one side I hear that the metal is too soft, bends easily, goes out of adjustment with a slight bump, etc. On the other side I hear that it's strong, sturdy, stays in adjustment, etc. It does seem that the negative opinions are referring to older horns, say, before 2015, or older. And that the more recent horns get good reviews in this regard. Is it possible that Ridenour upgraded the quality of the metal at some point?
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Author: fernie121
Date: 2019-12-05 04:23
I think the metal has for sure been upgraded. My first clarinet from them did have keywork issues back in 2015. My current clarinet, a Libertas Bb clarinet, is solid. The keywork feels great and sturdy and I haven’t had any problems.
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Author: NOLA Ken
Date: 2019-12-05 05:38
The keywork on my Libertas is good and hard and stays in adjustment very well. The metal is just soft enough to that a good tech can adjust the keywork to personal preferences without endangering the key. I had a minor ajustment made on one of the spatula keys on mine. I don't know that I would have risked trying to have that done on one of my vintage Leblancs - at least by anyone short of a master tech. Those old Leblancs were built like battleships.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2019-12-05 05:53
For conformation maybe call Tom Rid. himself. A great guy to talk shop with.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: r small
Date: 2019-12-05 05:55
Interesting responses, especially since I'm about to drop the hammer on a Bb Libertas. I've read so many positive things about the sound, intonation, and playability of these instruments but not much about the quality of the materials used in the construction. I have read a number of reviews of Ridenour clarinets that complained of the soft metal. But so far it seems that this does not hold true for the Libertas line.
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Author: r small
Date: 2019-12-05 05:59
Bob, I plan on calling Tom tomorrow morning (12/5/19) to place my order so hopefully I'll get to talk with either him or Ted personally.
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2019-12-05 06:09
Unfortunately, calling them won’t help. I tried to ask about keywork quality a few years ago and was met with some resistance from Ted who tried to talk around what I thought was a pretty uncontroversial issue. I believe the quality has improved a bit, but it’s hard to establish that when they won’t admit it was lacking to begin with.
Post Edited (2019-12-05 08:47)
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Author: Djudy
Date: 2019-12-05 15:50
I once tried to purchase a used Libertas on that auction site but returned it because the instrument was in poorer condition than advertised (return accepted with apologizes). One of the issues was considerable corrosion of the metal parts. I've got a lot of vintage material but this is the only one I've had to return. Note that this was certainly and older instrument, don't know it's provenance. I was disappointed because I'd really like to have a hard rubber clarinet on hand. But I'll wait now until I can afford a new one and will take good care of it then.
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Author: r small
Date: 2019-12-05 18:04
Djudy--That clarinet might have been used in marching band, maybe got rained on, etc. Most of what I read about the Libertas has been positive so maybe it's possible that that particular instrument was a one-off. I wonder if the quality of the Ridenour metal varies from time to time, i.e., an occasional bad batch. Anyway, if you're still considering a new Libertas now might be a good time to buy since Ridenour has them on sale for the holidays for $1,450.
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2019-12-05 18:12
Th softness of the metal is one issue. Chinese instruments aren't uniformly bad now. Another issue is the plating. Sometimes it goes bad in as little as two years - even on expensive instruments from China.
I believe that Yamaha makes most or all its parts in Japan and they are assembled in China or Indonesia. I'm not sure about Jupiter - but my guess is that Jupiter tightly controls the manufacturing process for it's factories in China. I don't know the specifics for the different companies importing from China. Lesser known brands buy from Chinese companies and can switch companies.
It was easy (and maybe still easy) for a Chinese business to get a loan in China and open a factory - even if they don't have much experience. This has led to lots of factories producing poor products. The failure rate for these business is high.
As a repair person (and only a casual performer), I have a different perspective on clarinets. I haven't yet seen one of the above mentioned clarinets that I've liked, but maybe I'll be surprised soon.
Steve Ocone
Post Edited (2019-12-06 01:00)
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2019-12-05 18:29
The clarinet market changes quickly, as new models and companies enter the field. A few years ago, the Ridenour Libertas looked like a winner. With the emergence of the lower priced Uebel models, though, one might question whether the Libertas is still a best buy. Compare the Uebel Classic at $1612.00 to the Libertas at $1750 or the Uebel Advantage at $2,175. Many players might prefer to pay the extra $425 for the Advantage, owing to its overtone rich sound and general quality of manufacture.
By the way, aren't Uebels at least partially made in China? Has anyone found defects in the Uebel keywork?
Post Edited (2019-12-05 18:30)
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Author: Burt
Date: 2019-12-05 19:21
I've had no problem with the metal strength or hardness on my 2016 vintage Libertas, but the plating has has worn down to bare copper in many places. It's never been in the rain, etc., and seldom outdoors even in good weather.
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Author: r small
Date: 2019-12-05 19:28
I've had nickel plating wear on pro-level horns like my Leblanc LX (which, sadly, I sold about a year ago). Small areas on the register key and left hand pinky keys. I didn't worry about it.
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2019-12-05 20:54
I have a Ridenour Bb, C, and low C bass all purchased in the last 5 years or so. No problems with key strength....but I am very careful about handling my instruments.
John Gibson, Founder of JB Linear Music, www.music4woodwinds.com
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Author: r small
Date: 2019-12-05 21:19
I just talked with Ted Ridenour and asked him about the metal and he admitted that the metal on the earlier clarinets was sub-par but says the more recent vintage horns haven't had any problems, even on the low C bass. So I went ahead and ordered the Libertas. I don't foresee any issues with the metal.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2019-12-06 00:29
Someone should email Tom or Ted and have them comment. This is very interesting.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2019-12-06 01:03
Sorry I made a mistake in my last post. I meant to say that Chinese instruments AREN'T uniformly bad now. I need to read my own posts more carefully.
Steve Ocone
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Author: r small
Date: 2019-12-06 01:07
Ted was referring to the very earliest production instruments. He didn't specify a date at which time the metal used was considered up to par. But I'm guessing going back at least ten years. In any event the consensus seems to be that current and more recent vintage Ridenours are using metal that is "within specs".
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2019-12-06 02:41
The key work on my late 2014 Libertas is very sturdy. I wore through the plating on the keys very rapidly though, despite wiping them down daily. I think nickel is just not good with my body chemistry. The nickel keys on the R13 I bought in the mid-80's didn't do well either, although as a high school student I did care for it as well as I might of.
Silver or gold are all I would consider at this point, but everyone is different. I wish there was a test that could be done to check for metal allergies and reactivity before buying a clarinet.
Anders
Post Edited (2019-12-06 05:11)
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Author: r small
Date: 2019-12-06 03:37
My sweat eats through nickel pretty fast too. That's why I prefer silver. But it's just cosmetic. Doesn't have any effect on how the horn plays.
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Author: Burt
Date: 2019-12-07 08:54
Bob wrote "Someone should email Tom or Ted and have them comment. This is very interesting."
A few days ago, I e-mailed Ted about this and about my interest in moving the left ring finger hole. No response yet.
I'm worried about the plating because there are particles of some copper salt falling off, and could possibly get stuck under a pad. My temporary fix is silver paint covered by clear nail polish. But this needs to be re-done often. Re-plating is very expensive and would require replacement of perfectly good corks and pads.
I had a pre-R13 Buffet with the lower-cost (dull) plating for over 60 years with no such problem.
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2019-12-07 10:27
Burt wrote:
> Re-plating is
> very expensive and would require replacement of perfectly good
> corks and pads.
Unfortunately silver plating isn't advisable with a hard rubber clarinets due to quick and severe tarnishing from the sulfur content of the rubber.
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Author: richard smith
Date: 2019-12-08 21:08
I own 4 early ones which were adjusted by Tom for tuning and resistance. Not played much but look like new and perform superbly .
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Author: r small
Date: 2019-12-10 17:59
nellsonic wrote:
> Burt wrote:
>
> > Re-plating is
> > very expensive and would require replacement of perfectly
> good
> > corks and pads.
>
> Unfortunately silver plating isn't advisable with a hard rubber
> clarinets due to quick and severe tarnishing from the sulfur
> content of the rubber.
I read somewhere that gold plated keys are in the offing for Ridenour clarinets. So apparently gold plate doesn't tarnish like silver. Would look pretty sharp too.
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Author: fernie121
Date: 2019-12-10 18:15
I eat through nickel pretty fast. What I do is make sure to wipe the keys with a cloth after playing, and I put those small anti-tarnishing squares in my case. Seems to be working great.
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Author: r small
Date: 2019-12-11 00:45
fernie121 wrote:
> I eat through nickel pretty fast. What I do is make sure to
> wipe the keys with a cloth after playing, and I put those small
> anti-tarnishing squares in my case. Seems to be working great.
>
Are those anti-tarnishing squares made for any metal. In the past I have used paper strips treated with some chemical for protecting silver plate that works pretty well. Is what you're using the same thing?
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Author: fernie121
Date: 2019-12-11 04:37
Yes. I bought a pack of 50 or so for a few dollars on amazon. They are for silver, nickel and lots of other metals.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2019-12-19 10:49
I own an early production Libertas and the metal is quite stiff. Stiffer than my Backun Alpha, for example. The Libertas is a very reliable clarinet.
And, I eat up nickle plating quickly too ... but silver lasts for me. But not available on hard-rubber instruments.
I'd like keys either a hard-alloy aluminum or un-plated nickle-silver (apparently you could buy Buffets without plating, at one time) ...
Tom
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Author: Burt
Date: 2019-12-19 18:23
Tom S., I share your problem.
Fernie, I bought the anti-tarnishing material you described. Thanks for posting. It's too early to tell if they will solve my tarnishing problem. (I wish I knew about these when I first bought the clarinet 3 years ago.)
My communication to Ted Ridenour has not been answered.
Burt
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