 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Djudy
Date: 2019-12-02 03:11
Just found this, came out last Tuesday. Anybody seen or tried one of these ? Another wood/non-wood model from Backun :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9W5xnXQgP8
Be interesting to put these in the same room with a Greenline. On their web site the pro Bb is under 5k
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2019-12-02 03:42
These have been out for awhile and definitely cost more than $5,000. According to their website the base price is $10,999 USD. And that's only if you want silver keywork and no solid silver register tube like some kind of peasant...
I would love to try one, but given that it costs 4x the price of my car I don't think that will be happening anytime soon.
-Jdbassplayer
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Author: fernie121
Date: 2019-12-02 03:50
Price puts it out of reach for most, so I don’t see it being as industry changing as they claim. I’m sure they are very high quality. Seems like a lot of work to make such an unstable material as stable as other readily available materials. As a player of hard rubber clarinets, I’m pretty much sold on the idea wood is NOT the most ideal material anyways. When it comes to stability or tone. Would be interested in trying an all carbon fiber clarinet though!
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Author: jonok
Date: 2019-12-02 04:56
I don't know, it seems like a strange idea .. to try and keep the wood stable by straight-jacketing in carbon fiber outer sleeve.
I mean, the wood that is inside is still going to do what wood wants to do, expand and contract ... so what happens when it does that and can't expand in all directions?
-------------------
aspiring fanatic
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2019-12-02 05:18
>I mean, the wood that is inside is still going to do what wood wants to do,
>expand and contract ... so what happens when it does that and can't expand in
>all directions?
In theory nothing. The wood is "pre-stressed" so that is it (theoretically) always under compression. If the wood applies more force outward as it attempts to expand, the carbon fiber will apply an equal and opposite force back in. It's the same concept as "carbon fiber banding" to fix cracks.
It's a great idea, I just don't think it will be revolutionary until someone can do it cheaper.
-Jdbassplayer
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2019-12-02 06:42
I don't understand the tone hole idea. What keeps the tone holes from going out of round (they are not "jacketed").
I think I understand WHY the lining and the tone holes are wood. I doubt there is any way to fine tune (shave, sand, gauge, whatever) the carbon fiber material. Therefore the wooden tone holes and interior are a necessity.
But I agree with "fernie121." An all carbon fiber clarinet would be more interesting......and bullet proof.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2019-12-02 09:36
>> What keeps the tone holes from going out of round <<
By how much would they change and why do they have to be round? What keeps them more round in a regular wood clarinet?
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2019-12-02 10:58
I've played on a pair briefly. They are effortlessly LOUD. They are also light weight and EXPENSIVE. Seemed very possibly too loud for me. Wouldn't want to have to keep a lid tightly on the sound most all the time. Plays really really well otherwise.
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Author: Juanzen
Date: 2019-12-02 13:33
I got to try them as well a few months ago, the sound pops effortlessly, but the keyword for backun does not suit me(I play on very old horns) I find all the keys for the right hand to be too close for comfort... I have this issue with most recent clarinets even if I move the thumbrest.
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2019-12-02 21:26
Loud is what people noticed right after they came out, too. An important question is whether it's centered, rounded loud or bright, in your face loud. Another would be how easy or hard it is to get a reliable, stable soft as well. One way or the other, it's nice that they've done the experiment.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2019-12-03 04:17
Good question 'Clarnibass,' and I will let Morrie Backun (ironically) answer that question at 3:31 of this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weGxlC0YI2I
Watching the whole thing you hear that Ricardo had some concerns about his Backun clarinet not responding and tuning quite as well as it did a year prior when he first obtained it. At 3:30 Morrie whips out a reamer to show that it "wobbles" in the tone hole. After taking a quick measurement and doing some judicious re-reaming, Morrie gets the tone hole back "in round" and solves Ricardo's problem.
I would freely admit that the issue may be less so if the surrounding body of the clarinet does not expand and contract, BUT the CG clarinet does have completely wooden chimneys and that would allow for the aperture itself to remain.......unstable.
As for the idea that loud might not be great in and of itself I say.....BAH !!!!!
I tell my students all the time that the greater the difference available to you from softest to loudest represents your "palette." If you have any sort of reasonable control over your instrument, SOFT should NOT be a problem. Therefore any greater differential only allows you MORE contrast with which to play. And if there is any question if dynamic contrast is a good thing or not, just reference any recording of Martin Frost.
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2019-12-04 09:08
>> Good question 'Clarnibass,' and I will let Morrie Backun (ironically) answer that question at 3:31 of this video <<
It was a bit of a rhetorical question... your post sounded like you meant this is a problem on the carbon fiber clarinet but not on a regular wood clarinet. My point was that tone holes don't have to be exactly round.
I guess if they drilled round and then they aren't something moved... in the video he uses calipers and feel of the reamer to measure, which isn't very precise, but more than the precise enough for this purpose... which is the point that this doesn't have to be that precise...
Checking for more wobble in one direction with the reamer, it means either the reamer or the tone hole are tapered. The former most definitely. It really looks like the reamer is tapered too, otherwise it would either pass or not pass through the tone hole. It would round it, but also enlarge it, exact size depends where you stop.
In the end he measured 0.001" difference with the imprecise measuring method... which is ok. Point is that if you are dealing with a problem of tone holes not being round, which affects the way the clarinet plays, then the exact details of that are the important part. If it's out of round but large enough, reaming would increase the issue if anything.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2019-12-04 09:11
By the way carbon fiber can be machined, it's just more "difficult" (expensive, more issues are possible) than wood or metal in general.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2019-12-04 09:44
I suppose like anything else, the more product that is sold the cheaper it becomes. Maybe some day all clarinets will be 100% carbon fiber (if that indeed turns out to be a good material for clarinets) and they will be relatively inexpensive.
But I'm not sold on the hybrid idea........let's pick a material and make it work!
.............Paul Aviles
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