 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: tdufka
Date: 2019-08-25 03:22
Is anyone aware of a resource that details the different versions of the LeBlanc paperclip contra-alto and contra-bass models, design changes, years of manufacture, etc?
I am specifically interested in knowing if the contra-alto was ever made in a Low C version, or only low Eb, as it seems certain that the contra-bass came in both low C and low Eb versions.
Are there any preferred years for either of these instruments?
Thanks!
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Author: LCL
Date: 2019-08-25 07:26
I own a Model 340 BBb manufactured in 1963 that descends to Low C. I have seen several contrabasses online in the past that descended to Low D but not Low Eb. Several years ago while looking for a contra alto, I ran across one that did descend to Low C. I did not buy it but instead purchased a Selmer Model 40 contra alto that descends to Low Eb. Sorry that I can't offer any additional information.
Best wishes,
LCL
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Author: tdufka
Date: 2019-08-25 09:18
Thanks!
I am curious to know if your decision to pass on the LeBlanc contra-alto was based based on sonics of the instrument, or condition?
Seems like a low C contra-alto might be low enough for me.
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Author: Mojo
Date: 2019-08-25 17:02
I think the Paperclip Contra Alto only comes in a low C model.
MojoMP.com
Mojo Mouthpiece Work LLC
MojoMouthpieceWork@yahoo.com
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Author: LCL
Date: 2019-08-25 17:29
To answer the question, I passed on the Leblanc contra-alto simply because the Selmer looked so pretty. Yes, I know, goofy and illogical, but nevertheless that's why. The Selmer has a gorgeous tone and timbre and I am not sorry I did what I did. I generally play the tuba part in a community band when a part for contra-alto isn't available. There are two to four tubas in the group, but the contra-alto reinforces the bass line nicely.
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2019-08-25 17:41
Here is every contra clarinet Leblanc made:
"Old" model 340: Paperclip contrabass in Bb. Has 3 trill keys and decends to low
D or low C. This mode does not have an automatic double register vent mechanism and you need to switch between two register keys. Made from the mid 1930s to the 1950s
"Old" model 342: The original straight contrabass in Bb that descends to low Eb. I believe these were introduced in the 1950s as I have not seen one from earlier. These instruments only have one register vent located on the top bow. These play horribly in tune due to this design feature and should be avoided. These only have one trill key.
Model 340: Paperclip contrabass in Bb. This is the most desirable model. This model is the improved version of the original and is destinguished by only having a single register key that controls both vents automatically. There is only one trill key on these modes. Can descend to low D or low C. Newer models are painted black but are functionally identical.
Model 342: Same as old model but with a fully automatic double register vent mechanism. Look for a key shaped like the number 7 between the neck and the body. These are also seen with black paint on newer models
Model 350: Same as 340 but in Eb. These only descend to low C as a low D version was never offered.
Model 352: Same as 342 but in Eb
Leblanc also made "paperclip" bass clarinets, basset horns and of course one octocontrabass and one octocontralto clarinet.
-Jdbassplayer
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Author: Mojo
Date: 2019-08-26 16:15
There are also variations of the BBb Paperclip that have diagonal bracing on the LH picky keys. Also the low C version can come with a removable foot joint that extends a low D body to the low C or it can be a non-removable extended body.
MojoMP.com
Mojo Mouthpiece Work LLC
MojoMouthpieceWork@yahoo.com
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Author: jasonalder
Date: 2020-08-12 06:07
old post, but exactly relevant to the research I'm doing right now, and there's some things I need to correct...
The "old" model (possibly called 52), had all 4 trill keys, 2 register keys, an altissimo half-hole mechanism, forked A♭/E♭, and went to C. Only about 25 of them were made, I currently know where 4 of them are.
Then the model 340 that had 2 register keys, no other extended keywork features, and only 1 trill key, and went to D. I have reason to believe there should be low C models as well, but I haven't actually found one yet.
Then they switched to an automatic register key system instead of 2 separate keys, still predominantly low D instruments, but also some low Cs which were model 345.
Then they stopped producing low D models and only made low C, and started calling low C instruments model 340, and now they all just get called model 340. The model name isn't actually stamped anywhere on the instrument, so it's a bit irrelevant anyway.
Then they switched to a one piece lower joint, instead of a separate low C and C♯ foot joint.
Then they stopped production in France, moved it to Kenosha, and made the black models. They're identical in design, but I've heard they're not as good. But I haven't actually tried one to know for sure. I don't know for sure how many of these were made, but I don't think it was so many.
And now they've stopped production altogether, although the JinBao factory makes a copy, but all one piece- no upper and lower joints.
The model 342 is straight, metal and only goes to E♭. I haven't paid much attention to them, but they play better than the plastic Leblancs, and also come apart into two pieces so are more transportable.
Model 350 is the paperclip contra-alto, although it's the same bore size as the contrabass (30mm) and takes a contrabass mouthpiece. They didn't start producing it until later, so it only ever had 1 automatic register key, but does have 3 trill keys. There were no significant changes to the instrument over the years.
Model 352 is the straight metal contra-alto. I know less about it than I do the 342.
I'll have an even more detailed article referencing years and serial numbers coming soon.
Post Edited (2020-08-13 02:26)
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Author: zorba1977
Date: 2020-08-12 20:39
Thanks, this is very useful!
Do you know modern makers of paperclip models? You have mention Jinbao, did you try their contra clarinets?
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Author: jasonalder
Date: 2020-08-13 02:19
As far as I know, any modern copy of a paperclip is made by JinBao and branded by the seller. There's one named "Concerto" being sold by a music shop in Germany that has both nickel and silver plated models, Ripamonti lists one on their site that I believe has to be the JinBao (though I haven't actually asked Flavio yet), there's a music store in Spain carrying them also... I haven't tried one to know for sure. I know one person that owns and regularly plays one, and he likes it a lot. Some friends have a saxophone shop and have their own line of JinBao saxes... we discussed the idea of getting one in to try, but nobody was in the financial position to take the risk in case it sucked and we couldn't re-sell it... My concern is the quality of the metal of the body and keywork. And I'm sure it would need a complete overhaul straight from the factory to get everything set up well... but until I actually try one I won't know for sure.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2020-08-13 23:55
Attachment: PC100005.JPG (489k)
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Not a contra, but I have a JinBao bass sax (SA80II copy) and the general fit and finish on it is pretty good in that it was playable straight from the box. Typical with Chinese makers, they do use a lot of natural cork and soft plastic tubing on the keywork which is both noisy and creates a lot of friction, so that's something that should be replaced.
Some keys were cobbled together from bari sax key pieces and the cup arms are too short with a thin area of the arm showing where it would normally butt against the side of the pad cup when fitted to the correct instrument. Some touchpiece positions were way out of reach and a bit of creative bending had to be done to make them better positioned under the fingers.
Now, the main problem I encountered were the point screws where the threads had been nipped across the thread with wire cutters to lock them into the pillar threads - only they make light work of destroying the pillar threads when they're removed. I've seen this done on Selmer USA oboe adjusting screws as well, so it's one of those annoying things that are done just to get the instrument through quality control and out the factory door.
Other JinBao instruments I've seen (which were bari saxes) have the threaded ends and even the threads of rod screws ground down to prevent keys binding up when the screws are tightened if the pillars aren't true. Others have the threads cut with wire cutters and left jagged instead of trued up which will also damage the much softer brass pillar threads. Other rod screws that are too long have been ground down flush with the key and beyond the slot so you can't remove them without resorting to some surgery or other. See attachment.
It's always a gamble buying any Chinese built instrument and some can be opening a real can of worms once you set to work on them and then end up having to do far more work than you anticipate - that's fine if you can do your own repair work and can adapt or fabricate replacement parts, but expect a hefty repair bill if you have to get someone else to do the work for you.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2020-08-14 00:01)
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2020-08-14 17:12
I love the "Good Luck" on the back on the pads. I've had to deal with those myself. At least in the US, "good luck" can be slang for something like "you're in trouble" (depending on how you say it - maybe someone has a better translation).
Steve Ocone
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Author: zorba1977
Date: 2020-08-18 13:06
> As far as I know, any modern copy of a paperclip is made by JinBao and branded by the seller
I found on alibaba also Frater Musical instruments who makes paperclip contrabass clarinet:
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Cupronickel-body-Nickel-Silver-Plated-Bb_60755091576.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.0.0.2ba354d9rwjTps
Do you know if it's the same model rebranded or if it's another factory who make the istruments?
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Author: jasonalder
Date: 2020-08-18 19:46
They're all JinBao, I'm sure. They stencil instruments for other people to put their own brand on. That's their entire business model.
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Author: Val
Date: 2020-09-16 06:03
Hi
I wrote a Leblanc contrabass clarinet listing models on my web site:
https://valentin-saxophone.com/en/blog-leblanc-contrabass-clarinet-types.php
Hope it will help you.
Valentin
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