 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Galen Green
Date: 2019-02-19 10:49
Hi Ive been playing the Clarinet for a few years now as a student and Ive always wondered if it's possible to tune a B flat clarinet to C so I wouldn't have to transpose my pieces before I played them with others.
Would it be possible to purchase a new clarinet barrel and lathe it down until the clarinet tuned to C ?
From what I've seen it probably isn't that easy but I think it would be worth the effort if it works.
Does anyone have any advice on how I might go about this and things I must keep in mind?
Thanks!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk
Date: 2019-02-19 12:53
Not having actually tried this myself, my guess is that it won't work. It isn't just that the C clarinet is shorter, but that the relative distances between the individual tone holes is different among the various sizes of clarinet. Even if a much shorter barrel would bring the shortest-length fingerings (the throat notes) down a whole step, the pitch as you add fingers would be progressively out of tune because all the holes would too far apart. It isn't a matter of absolute distances from hole to hole, but one of proportions.
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2019-02-19 18:03
Yup, I agree wholeheartedly with Karl. Look at an "A" clarinet and how much longer it is (and the increased distance between holes) - that's a half step.
"C" clarinets are becoming more common and less expensive (relatively speaking), but they have a characteristically more constricted sound (almost like you're playing in the altissimo all the time).
I suggest learning transposition up one step is the easiest solution. Personally I have found as far as I was concerned, the problem was thinking a "fingering" in my head rather than a note. If you start out thinking the note as you play, the art of transposition gets a bit easier.
...............Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Lagace
Date: 2019-02-19 18:07
It wouldn't work. Remove the barrel altogether and duck-tape the mouthpiece to the upper joint and give it a try. All the tone holes are proportionally in the wrong place. Possibly one note would be in the proper place to be in tune but all the others would be out of tune.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2019-02-19 18:12
With the barrel shortened to just two sockets with nothing much between them (or just taping the mouthpiece to the top tenon), you'll end up with a Bb clarinet that plays a semitone or thereabouts sharp in the throat notes and somewhere between a quarter tone and a semitone sharp lower down - therefore an instrument that's completely out of tune with itself.
If you have a guitar or a similar fretted string instrument, you can see the exact same effect if you move the bridge from its original and calculated position to much nearer to the fingerboard and then play an open string and stopping it at the 12th fret for the 8ve on that same string. The note at the 1th fret will be dreadfully sharp compared to the open string as the scale is out of whack as the frets are in a set position relative to the length of the string just as the toneholes are in set positions according to the pitch of the clarinet.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tobin
Date: 2019-02-19 18:13
Aside from the tuning issues discussed above, the timbre would also be wrong. The C clarinet is a big step towards an Eb clarinet in that manner.
James
Gnothi Seauton
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: MichaelW
Date: 2019-02-19 19:17
Attachment: IMG_1169_s.jpg (70k)
"It isn't just that the C clarinet is shorter, but that the relative distances between the individual tone holes is different among the various sizes of clarinet"
To illustrate this, here is a picture of "German system" Bb and C clarinets.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Galen Green
Date: 2019-02-19 19:18
Thanks so much everyone for the information!
Yes that makes complete sense!!
Although it didn't occur to me.
Do the Clarinets that are made to tune to C only sound constricted because they aren't made as well as the other more well known clarinets or is it because physically they just don't work?
Thanks
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk
Date: 2019-02-19 19:57
I don't know if "constricted" is the right word, as that implies, to me at least, a lack of resonance. C clarinets generally sound "brighter," although some C clarinets (depending mostly on bore size and shape) sound closer to a Bb clarinet and some sound more toward the quality of an Eb clarinet. There is a continuum in the character of the sound as you go upward through the various sizes from the really low clarinets through the D, Eb and Ab instruments. The sound, as with all clarinets, can also be affected by the mouthpiece, the reed and the player's concept.
The problem with a lot of C clarinets traditionally has been their tuning. It seems harder to find one with a scale that's in tune with itself than it is to find a Bb with an even scale. I don't know why that should be except that the demand is lower for C clarinets so there isn't as much incentive, I suppose, for manufacturers to invest in the R&D to improve them as much as there is for the Bb clarinets that every school band player uses.
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2019-02-19 20:17
It's a shame that Buffet no longer makes a plain R13 C clarinet as they did in the 1970's and 1980's.
Their only pro C clarinet offering now is the RC prestige.
... GBK (who has a 1986 silver plated R13 C clarinet - and uses it often in orchestra)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Lagace
Date: 2019-02-19 20:25
>>The problem with a lot of C clarinets traditionally has been their tuning.
The reason is that the mouthpieces are sometimes Bb mouthpieces and the mouthpiece bore us wrong for a C clarinet. I have an old C clarinet with at real 'C' mouthpiece and the tuning is fine. Tom Ridenour makes a C clarinet that tunes well with a Bb mouthpiece because it is designed for a Bb mouthpiece.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkdkVSxIqEM
And the chromatic scale with a C clarinet trio. Sync isn't so good between parts - should have used a 'click track' on a 4th track.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v58MH1s8xYM
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2019-02-19 20:30
Ken Lagace wrote:
> The reason is that the mouthpieces are sometimes Bb mouthpieces
> and the mouthpiece bore us wrong for a C clarinet.
The late Ralph Morgan was adamant that a C clarinet should be played with a C clarinet mouthpiece. He made one for me and it actually improves the overall tuning.
...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2019-02-19 20:32
I used the word constricted. I should have said, anyone listening to you play a "C" clarinet will say, "Please stop." They are traditionally more shrill. An Eb has a similar sound but because it plays higher, the sound makes more sense. That's why I suggest transposition.
A friend of mine showed me the new Buffet E11 "C." Not a bad horn and also designed to be played with a Bb mouthpiece. Honestly though I don't believe the acoustic lends itself to the size of a Bb mouthpiece even if the notes can be made to fit.
..............Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk
Date: 2019-02-19 22:01
Paul Aviles wrote:
> I used the word constricted. I should have said, anyone
> listening to you play a "C" clarinet will say, "Please stop."
> They are traditionally more shrill.
Well, it has to be played tastefully and needs to be under the player's control. I've heard more than one clarinetist playing a Bb clarinet to whom I would have said "Please stop" if courtesy hadn't prevented it.
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
