 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2019-02-14 00:33
Attachment: BG Trad Silver.jpg (953k)
Attachment: BG Trad. Gold.jpg (899k)
Attachment: BG Trad. Old.jpg (887k)
So I do tend to be pretty heavy handed with screwing down ligatures. Add to that the fact that Legeres are slipperier (and thinner; less deep, top to bottom) than most cane reeds. I have literally broken two new BG Tradition ligatures in as many months (after about four months of continuous use).
My first question is:
Do any of you guys have a similar problem with the newer BG Tradition ligatures?
I have also run into an older version of the BG Tradition that I just bought. The first thing I noticed is that the screw is on "the other side." You tighten it (right handed that is) as if you turn the clarinet around to do so. The second thing that I noticed is that the solder points are MUCH bigger, almost comprising the entire length of the screw guide and threaded collar (or whatever you call them).
Enclosed are pictures that represent the two broken ligatures. You can just make out the small area that is soldered on these. The third image is of the older BG Tradition showing the much larger solder points (probably WON'T break).
My second question:
Does anyone know approximately when BG changed the architecture of the how the fastener is tightened?
.....................Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2019-02-14 09:12
Hi Paul! I like the looks of this ligature. Good question to a common problem. I think the best ligature when testing a box of new reeds is your thumb. So I feel the ligature shouldn't be too tight. When refacing mouthpieces I often come across mouthpieces which dented in ligature marks. I've also notice really warped tables. This is a problem requiring hours of work to fix a warped table.
Your ligature is like a thumb.
So we kind of have to find that happy medium perhaps. We all know that the mouthpiece vibrates when playing so I've never used soft materials as ligatures. I strongly feel materials too soft actually can cut off the overtones on some notes. Yes up close the sound changes to a more mellow sound but if you record yourself in the middle of a hall you will surely hear what I'm talking about. This I have done a lot. Not just with ligatures but with mouthpieces and testing out new horns. One of the many reasons why I dumped Buffet and went with Yamaha.
I would encourage you to think of having a sore finger and thumb. That to me would be the ideal tightness. I have to repeat this. Too tight can warp the mouthpiece after a few years or less, depending on the hardness of the rubber. The Selmer Concept mouthpieces and the Vandoren M series mouthpieces are soft rubber. The Vandoren BD5 is harder. Mine are about as hard as they come. I wanted this because of the overtones. You can hear the differences in a hall. Thus why I hated Zinner mouthpieces. The chambers were too deep and dark. So the sound doesn't carry. We need to step back and record ourselves from the middle of a hall. Then you really know what you sound like. You can hear the differences often with just an iPhone. You may not need $5000 worth of studio recording gear.
So your question is actually pretty complicated when considering the vibrations of the mouthpiece and the overtones of the notes and the right ligature for you. Some players such as Stanley Drucker never changed mouthpieces. But he did mess around with ligatures. But he still pretty much uses the same metal ligatures. Same with Harold Wright and Marcellus. During this time most of the players stayed with the reverse Bonade, which still remains a bargain and a great metal ligature, because of the overtones. I don't use it, I made my own but I have a few Bonade's.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2019-02-14 09:21)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2019-02-14 15:56
Hey Bob,
I was asking a few very specific questions about a specific ligature, but I felt I needed to push back on a few things that you brought up that have been bothersome tropes for me over the years.
With regard to the strength and warpage of mouthpiece tables I would LOVE to hear more input from the community, however, material such as VULCANIZED rubber has a property known as COMPRESSIVE strength. You can line up a series of three long stemmed wine glasses on a two-by-four, then place another across the top of them, then stand on it and they will hold you up just fine. Similarly (I feel) one cannot contort a mouthpiece table with anything close to the tiny amount of compression the most Medieval ligature can produce. In addition the mouthpieces with the "softest" hard rubber are the old Chedevilles and the Behn copies. The softness manifests itself in regard to abrasive or repetitive impact (such as the vibration of a reed) which is why Behn offers a lifetime facing adjustment on his mouthpieces.
Again, I'd love input from others on this.
The second issue I have is with the efficaciousness of using an IPhone to judge the sound of a clarinet. I admit that I am raw from a session last night researching a piece of music for an upcoming gig that is popular with high school ensembles. Many of the YOUTUBE offerings were recorded on "said" devices (or equivalents). GRANTED you can asses aspects of musicality (yes, musicality.......see any vintage recording of a great player), balance within an ensemble, and accuracy of togetherness and tempo. BUT any meaningful assessment of something like timbre or projection is a lost cause even for the best recording process (and there are lot of different "bests" by the way).
Lastly, (and I carelessly say this without having read "Stanley Drucker, Clarinet Master") Stanley Drucker was not immune to trying out and using various mouthpieces. Frank Wells was famous for relating a time when Stanley brought in his cohorts with New York Phil while touring through Chicago. They all tried out and bought mouthpieces that day (some time in the '60s?). Of course there IS the possibility that Frank lied about that. There are mouthpiece makers who are inclined to lie to sell their product. Of course Frank is not with us any more and I have not read Mitch Estrin's book yet.
"I am become death, destroyer of ligatures."
..................Paul Aviles
Post Edited (2019-02-14 16:15)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2019-02-14 16:38
Laughing at your last line! Yes it would surely be great to hear from others!
I saw Stanley at the ClarinetFest. He was with Vandoren. At 88 years old I think he jumps around like he is still in his 30's. I'm not sure if he performed, but I did hear him not long ago playing the Mozart Concerto and again at 88 it was nothing short of remarkable. The end of the 3rd movement instead of standing there he plays with the orchestra! Guess he got bored several years ago and added the violin part
As far as I know he's still using the same mouthpiece as he did when he was about 20 years old or maybe even a shade younger.
As for hardness of a mouthpiece rod rubber was the preferred rubber, Sulphur is what makes the rod rubber harder or weaker. Adding or more makes it harder, but too much can kill the rubber and make it brittle. I get the rubber in Michigan. I don't have secrets, with that, but I do with bore measurements and the gauges I've designed. Here's something no one knew about. Babbitt used old tires several years ago, melted them down into pellets and then added sulphur and molded them into mouthpieces!!! Crazy! Heck it worked! But after 10 years or less the mouthpieces changed colors from bright black to that weird greenish brown. Sometimes when a mouthpiece is really old and has been sitting around for years the first time you try it it has a bitter taste to it. That I believe is the sulphur.
Get to a hall, a church, somewhere with a decent sound, even a small gym, when no one is there and then play the mouthpieces, ligatures. Not when the orchestra or band is there. You should hear slight variations. Articulation is a must to try out and above high C and just below high C looking for a clean tonguing and no delays when the tongue hits the reed. A common problem with ligatures is that delay and then you hear the sound. It's almost always worse on an "A" clarinet. So it's actually amazing how critical the ligature is. It can help you tongue faster, cleaner, and improve your sound. But you already know this.
As usual it's always fun chatting with you. You always have a lot of great and extended knowledge with a wealth of information. Cheers!
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2019-02-14 19:41
Back at ya.
LISTENING to yourself is really the way to go. I think there was a thread here really recently were I mentioned the importance of having reliable feedback from trusted colleagues too. Both are indispensable to achieving a performance ready sound.
.................Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ruben
Date: 2019-02-15 10:51
Dear Bob, An innocent question: if harder is better concerning mouthpiece material (Zinner is probobably about the softest rubber), why not use crystal or even metal? Flutists seem to be going the other way: many are using wooden heads on silver instruments. Your thoughts, which I value, on the matter please.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
