 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: tslchloe
Date: 2019-01-17 04:25
Hi! I bought a pair of Tosca clarinets in 2013 and I think it's about time to have them repadded. Though I play the clarinet a lot (hoping to get into the professional field in a few years), I know very little about clarinet pads. Please could someone briefly introduce the choices of pads that I have got, the pros and cons and the prices? I live in the Manchester UK and also have heard of the Superpads- according to the website getting a clarinet repadded with Superpads costs 300 pounds- anyone had experiences with Superpads? Thanks in advance!
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2019-01-17 04:54
The "Superpads" are not too disimilar to the pads used by Peter Eaton on his clarinets for the last decade or two.
Most players seem quite happy with them but I know of a few players who said they preferred the older leather pads and later had their instruments repadded with leather.
So it's not a huge difference obviously. You need to take the hype on the Manchester page with a pinch of salt. Repadding with superpads is no more difficult than using regular pads, but they will not I believe sell their pads to other users/repairers.
I have fitted Eaton pads to some of my instruments with absolutely no problem.
My personal opinion is that the Manchester charges are rather excessive, but you pays your money and takes your choice.
Aren't the Tosca's now fitted with Goretex pads in the factory?
Why not ask a competent local repairer for their views and prices.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2019-01-17 05:13
I am not familiar with what top players prefer across The Pond (I'm a Yank), but here, for many years the standard (as set forth by the likes of Hans Moenig is to use cork pads at the top and some variance of thick bladder over felt for the last big pads. I have had luck in the last few years with the Valentino Masters pads. They are a firmer foam rubber synthetic than their original white foam pads (called "green backs") and are far superior. There are a number of good repair people here who really like these nearly indestructible pads.
I am just embarking on repadding an R13 Greenline with the German made Quartz Resonance Pads (available through 'woodwind boutique'). These are rather pricey, silicone based pads. I should have something to comment on in the the next three weeks or so when the job is complete.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2019-01-17 05:17
Can any of you provide a link to "Super Pads" information such as reviews or manufacturer's website? I am having trouble finding them.
.............thanks!
......................Paul Aviles
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2019-01-17 17:58
Thanks!
Well, I suppose they could be a decent product, whatever they are. There are no images let alone a good close up of what they might look like and no attempt to describe what they are made of. Mr. Ashton choses to be in full control of the product and the process. Only current customers can speak to their efficacy. The 300 Pounds for an install is really reasonable and inline with what we see here in the States.
Now I don't mean to pick on this particular business, but this is the sort of thing that has become a common marketing technique for mouthpieces. Instead of just standardizing the industry (or attempting to standardize the industry at least) we have:
"Try our new super special mouthpiece which is so far beyond description we just call it, The Black Diamond 5."
....................Paul Aviles
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2019-01-18 04:02
Yup, Eddie is not adverse to a bit of hype.
I used to make similar pads for Peter Eaton, and they are based on a cork lower level with a sealed pore foam (butyl from memory) on top.
On Peter's instruments (probably also Eddie is now copying this) the larger lower pads were fitted with recessed reflectors.
I always added a gentle dome shape on the cork back of the pads, (borrowed the idea from my experience of fitting cork pads to oboes). This allows the pad to bottom out on the centre of the cup, but rock gently in every plane to permit easy and even seating.
Contrary to Ediie's assertion, pads like these are perfectly easy for an experinced repairman to fit and seat, with absolutely no force required at all.
Also, contrary again to his assertions, for decades now competent, experienced and careful repairers have been achieving a 100% airtight seal with conventional pads.
I have also handled a couple of oboes that Eddie had fitted with his SuperPads. They were an unmitigated disaster, and I see he now only offers his pads for clarinets (and possibly bassoons - he did at least for some time).
So read between the lines and make you mind up on that.
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Author: Dibbs
Date: 2019-01-18 14:26
Caroline Smale wrote:
...
I always added a gentle dome shape on the cork back of the
> pads, (borrowed the idea from my experience of fitting cork
> pads to oboes). This allows the pad to bottom out on the
> centre of the cup, but rock gently in every plane to permit
> easy and even seating.
>
...
Is that what he is referring to in the statement below? If so did he copy your technique?
"The clever bit is the unique way by which they are set into the key to ensure that each one is perfectly positioned, without any application of force and regardless of key orientation with its tone hole."
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2019-01-18 15:20
The backing of the Kraus Omni Pad is a plastic hemisphere. They are made that way specifically for the ease of seating .
.....................Paul Aviles
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2019-01-18 15:34
I had a Peter Eaton International come in to me several years back which was fitted with the neoprene covered cork pads and it leaked like a sieve even though the pads were seating, but not sealing as air was leaking through the open holes on the surface of the neoprene layer. So those pads are ones I won't ever recommend.
High quality cork pads are only good provided they're prepared well and the toneholes themselves are good and free from any defects - in the case of Buffets (Toscas included), that's highly unlikely and they all have to be made good before even thinking of repadding them with cork or any pads.
A type of pad I've used recently which I've had excellent results with are Pisoni PRO CLS pads which are a plastic shell in the form of a stepped pad, but have a synthetic layer set into them. The only problem with using them on Buffets is the smaller diameter ones have a much thicker sidewall compared to the skin pads with a thin felt layer that Buffet use, so they won't always sit nice and level in the pad cups (the larger diameter ones are fine).
My preference on clarinet overhauls is to cork pad everything except the largest pad cups where leather or synthetic can be used.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2019-01-19 03:44
Hi Dibbs, I suspect he did copy my design, still there was no copyright on it, and immitation is certainly one form of flattery.
Chris, the Eaton pads certainly did not have open holes in the neoprene in the days I was involved.
I still have a few on my Leblancs which I fitted about 20 years ago, and remain as airtight as you could possibly wish.
The players in the LSO and Covent Garden don't seem to have any problems like this
Eddie uses the same material, and from his comments pages there seem to be an awful lot of professional players who also have no problems with sealing.
Can't understand how you came to have a problem.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2019-01-19 09:31
Well you have one of the best horns made. I'm not sure if you plan on re-padding the horn yourself or have someone do it. Since this is such a great horn I'd spend the money and have the best repairman around and have cork pads put on the upper register. However I don't know anything about superpads. In the USA I like the Valentino green back pads which are plastic pads and seal very well and don't wear out.
There are leather pads too but I strongly feel they can deaden the sound, such as on the Yamaha CSVR clarinets so I use cork pads on the upper register to get that ring and I got rid of the leather pads on the lower joint with the above Valentino's.
Players may think I'm totally goofy, but before you decide on this look at sax pads. Sax pads are of course leather but they have plastic resonators on some of the pads to get rid of that dead sound.
As players we have to be very careful with what we hear as our ears can fool us. For example the saxes I have all ring well because of pad choice and the sound carries. The same is with the clarinets. The cork pads are becoming less used and players ears think the new sound is better, but be careful that your sound still projects well. Lastly cork pads tend to last for years and years. In the old days I made cork pads out of wine bottle cork. But the cork you get now is very good and the only thing I do is sand the cork with 3000 grit sandpaper to get a great finish on the pad.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2019-01-19 09:33
I still have some of those neoprene pads on my clarinet (Eaton) and they seal fine after 15 years.
Doming and/or tapering the back of cork (or other) pads is a very old method that was probably invented by many people... who knows who was the first and doubt anyone still alive or dead today can claim they are. It's a standard method for many decades.
This is all personal preference, but I'm not crazy about the Eaton synthetic pads (or Superpads) because they are a little more quiet and spongy. They feel less snappy than most other pads. Though some players like that.
For the same reason I don't like cork pads, because of their specific snap sound/noise.
I actually like bladder pads the most, but even the best quality ones often don't last as long as other pads (statistically, not always) and I move more and more towards non-animal products.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2019-01-19 11:28
Doming the backs of cork pads allow them to be shifted around easier when being seated compared to cork pads left flat, although that depends on how thin the pad is and how much shellac is in behind them.
The Eaton International with the leaky pads is probably around 5-6 years old by now - others I've seen were sealing well, but this one was a real dog as it had loads of other and some serious problems besides the leaky pads.
I've repadded two clarinets using Pisoni PRO CLS pads and so far, so good as I haven't had any complaints from either owner. Although I would like to see how well they perform over time. Being synthetic and plastic backed, they have to be installed with hot glue which isn't my favourite method, but it's out of necessity as shellac won't bond well to plastic or it will melt it. Some of the pads were faced with a synthetic membrane which I used on one clarinet and the other one I used the standard ones with a similar facing material to Valentino pads.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: shmuelyosef
Date: 2019-01-20 01:17
I started using hot glue for synthetic pads, but now use it for all clarinet work (I still use shellac exclusively for saxophones).
I find that the hot glue gives me more precision in dispensing, and doesn't get as thin as shellac when you heat it, which provides more precision in seating, and much lower chance of oozing.
I always use cork on the register key (and 'dome' the back and vent the front), but only do complete upper joint cork on new clarinets with perfect toneholes.
Left to my own devices, I will use Valentino Masters (amber) on the upper joint and leather on the bottom.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2019-01-21 08:49
>> I always use cork on the register key (and 'dome' the back and vent the front), but only do complete upper joint cork on new clarinets with perfect toneholes. <<
More than a few new clarinets (including professional models) have slightly rough or even tiny chips in tone holes. With some exceptions, I level tone holes and make the rim as good as it can be when installing a pad. Definitely on all "pro" repads/overhauls.
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