Advertising and Web Hosting on Woodwind.Org!

Woodwind.OrgThe Clarinet BBoardThe C4 standard

 
  BBoard Equipment Study Resources Music General    
 
 New Topic  |  Go to Top  |  Go to Topic  |  Search  |  Help/Rules  |  Smileys/Notes  |  Log In   Newer Topic  |  Older Topic 
 Seeking info on a Frank Kaspar Mouthpiece
Author: Ken. 
Date:   2018-12-23 10:44

Can anyone tell me anything about a Frank Kaspar mouthpiece in the link below?

I have posted a couple of photos here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/gbC1FjNQX3KHV3ev9

It has CHICAGO ILL stamped on it which based on what I have read indicates it was made in his earlier years. I'm guessing it is a Chedeville blank. How much would this be worth?

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Seeking info on a Frank Kaspar Mouthpiece
Author: Bob Bernardo 
Date:   2018-12-28 08:07

Hard to say if it was a Chedeville. I'd have to measure it. The main Cheds came from Cicero, just outside of Chicago. But even these sometimes were not Cheds. I have several and if you want me to measure yours mail if overnight and I'll ship it back the same way. The cost would be about $45 in shipping. It will take me about 15 minutes to measure it and determine what you have. I even have a few Henri Chedeville's. It's possible you could have an Henri not a Charles Chedeville. Or again maybe not. This is why my mouthpieces say Cicero on them.

When he was in Chicago the supply dried out so he got them from several sources but mainly a source I need to keep quiet as they were very consistent. The bore sizes came in 11, 13, and 15. 13 seemed to be very popular at the time. The company also made the Ann Arbor Kaspar version, which is a shallower baffle and chamber and the distance between the rails was closer, but sounded pretty decent, just a shade brighter. Robert Marcellus really liked the 13 bore and a 1.09 tip opening. However on my gauges they are 1.08. He ordered them in lots of 8 usually for his students. The cost then was about $60. Crazy how the prices have gone up. $1000 to $2000 is not uncommon. Is it worth the cost? Don't think so. It's like that ligature that sells for $900 to $1000, and the dead sounding Backun clarinets that sell for $21,000 for a set. Where do we draw the line here?

I actually have the drawings of these, so I'm very confident with what I'm writing.

A lot of people think the numbers had to do with tip openings, but they did not. Only the bore sizes.

There are stories that he used Buffet mouthpieces and Selmer's, but I haven't seen any mouthpieces changed to his specifications. There are special indications to look for that he would do to all of his mouthpieces.

Oh from the pics, the table looks like it is NOT a Chedeville, but that other company I have to keep a secret to. The table is too wide to be a Chedeville. But it's still a good mouthpiece.

Hope this helps.


NEWLY DESIGNED - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces


Yamaha Artist




Post Edited (2018-12-28 08:11)

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Seeking info on a Frank Kaspar Mouthpiece
Author: DavidBlumberg 
Date:   2018-12-28 08:59

The Backun's don't sound dead! Maybe a dead player makes em sound dead, but

I play em, and don't remotely sound dead.

Judge for yourself........

https://youtu.be/6Amc5wvdQiQ

http://www.MyTempoMusic.com

http://www.skypeclarinetlessons.com/about.html

Sponsored by Backun/D'Addario/BG/Silverstein/ Artist Teacher and Soloist

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Seeking info on a Frank Kaspar Mouthpiece
Author: J. J. 
Date:   2018-12-28 10:51

So very much misinformation from Bob here, most of it derived from confusing the two Kaspars with the Chedeville cousins. Where to start, really.

**Edited my post to correct my OWN error about the relationship between Frank and Frank L. Kaspar**



Post Edited (2018-12-28 15:18)

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Seeking info on a Frank Kaspar Mouthpiece
Author: Bob Bernardo 
Date:   2018-12-28 13:37

J.J no misinformation was given. The post was about cities not cousins. The person posting asked if these were Cheds. I don't believe they are. But I did offer to take a look at them. I'm very aware that the cousin lived in Ann Arbor. I NEVER said a thing about fathers or brothers or cousins. So kindly avoid trying to start arguments. The brothers were Charles and Henri Chedeville, nothing to do with the Kaspar's.

David, I tested the Backun's with Backun watching me. One horn had a bad left hand low F/C key and I told him he should take this off of the display because it didn't work, he got mad and with his Zinner mouthpieces they were dead. When I went to try another horn with my mouthpiece Backun took the horn away from me. Actually grabbed it away. He's a mean man. He needs to stop bullying people. He had the same problem with Julian Bliss who no longer talk either. When I was testing all sorts of horns, Selmer's and even instruments from Austria. Sorry to disagree maybe the Zinner mouthpiece made his horn dead. Even Ricardo with the Philly Orchestra had issues with projection so he went to a crystal mouthpiece. Now he too had a fight with Backun and dumped him. When Ricardo auditioned for Cleveland it is no secret that the orchestra could not hear him. Mahler's 4th. So he lost the job.

Lastly I offered to help Backun fix the Zinner mouthpieces, He just walked away and didn't say a word to me. When we run into each other now we don't talk. His horns are not worth the money and if people want to support him great! So if people want me to write a book to answer a simple question I'll tell the people to write to me offline.

No my answers were correct. I told the person posting what he needed to know. Nothing more and nothing less.


NEWLY DESIGNED - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces


Yamaha Artist




Post Edited (2018-12-28 14:08)

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Seeking info on a Frank Kaspar Mouthpiece
Author: RWodkowski 
Date:   2018-12-28 14:26

Henri and Charles Chedeville were cousins...not brothers



Post Edited (2018-12-28 14:48)

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Seeking info on a Frank Kaspar Mouthpiece
Author: Dan Shusta 
Date:   2018-12-28 21:53

Wow...this can get confusing!

In the following link, Charles and Henri are brothers...
http://www.woodwindforum.com/clarinetperfection/chedeville/

In this link, they are noted as cousins...(Go down to 4th paragraph)
https://retro-revival.com/products/artiste-replica-1930s-charles-chedeville-paris-bb-clarinet-mouthpiece

IMO, due to conflicting information on the Internet, I can see how easy it would be for anyone to get confused.

Now, to possibly add to the confusion or clarification...
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=340726&t=340726 (Read clancy's first response, first sentence)

I'm simply going to take Ramon's word as fact.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Seeking info on a Frank Kaspar Mouthpiece
Author: RWodkowski 
Date:   2018-12-28 23:09

I got my information from Henri Chedevilles family

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Seeking info on a Frank Kaspar Mouthpiece
Author: donald 
Date:   2018-12-28 23:17

Dave Tuttle has written some informative articles in The Clarinet on this topic.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Seeking info on a Frank Kaspar Mouthpiece
Author: Bob Bernardo 
Date:   2018-12-28 23:56

Actually I think they were brothers, the Chedevilles. But there is some confusion here. Research is not accurate. Some say they were cousins, others say they were brothers. It doesn't matter. Mouthpiece production with Charles was stopped around the late 1940's. They used the same mouthpieces.

I was exposed to pesticides at Rico and some of my memory was effected such as this. But in this case it really doesn't matter as I DID answer the persons question that posted about the Kaspar.

The Cicero bores were larger, just like the Cheds. One of the key factors in figuring out if Kaspar was using Cheds.

A lot of Chedevilles were not marked. Yet some had 2 C's that were reversed which looked like an 8. These are a few clues to look for when searching for old mouthpieces.


NEWLY DESIGNED - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces


Yamaha Artist




Post Edited (2018-12-29 00:45)

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Seeking info on a Frank Kaspar Mouthpiece
Author: seabreeze 
Date:   2018-12-29 01:12

Dan,

Thanks for this link. Bob Shepherd used to teach sax at Loyola University many years ago down here in New Orleans, and of course has made a name for himself as a very successful studio player. I had no idea that he was associated with (yet another) attempt to create a replica of vintage Chedeville clarinet mouthpieces. (In this case, apparently a Charles Chedeville rather than an Henri Chedeville). Do you know anyone who's tried them?



Post Edited (2018-12-29 03:15)

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Seeking info on a Frank Kaspar Mouthpiece
Author: TomS 
Date:   2018-12-29 09:45

Forget the Kaspar ... some were great, many were not. This I've been told by others that should know about such things ...

We are blessed today with more choices of more consistent and possibly better designed MPs. Behn, Mclune, Ridenour, Fobes, Hawkins, Backun, etc. have great designs and at less than you'll pay for a good Kaspar.

My new clarinet teacher has a drawer full of vintage and/or expensive boutique MPs that are not played anymore. The MP of choice, for quite some time, is a Vandoren M30/13.

I've found that clarinets that are seemingly "dead" (often with more resistance) as compared to an R13, can be revived with a lighter/brighter MP and reed. The advantage is that a lighter/brighter setup is often more responsive ... now your sound is back into beautiful balance, but gaining some agility. Good sound, Bob! I love this piece!

Tom

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Seeking info on a Frank Kaspar Mouthpiece
Author: DaveT 
Date:   2018-12-29 21:14

Thank you donald. My articles were entitled "The Chicago Mouthpiece Legacy" and appeared in four parts in the ICA magazine. After years of research and communicating with customers, friends, and colleagues of both Kaspars, I was able to put together a history these two artists and craftsmen, starting from their arrival in this country in the early 1900's to their final years. Without starting a battle, I must correct Bernado on several counts. 1. Frank Kaspar did not move to Cicero until 1964, therefore there can be no 1940's Cicero mouthpieces. 2. There is no "secret hidden" source of blanks. Rick Sayre, the ONLY person Frank Kaspar trained to make/reface mouthpieces, was working with Kaspar when blanks were purchased from Glotin, Riffault, Sumner, Babbit, etc. etc. It is true that at some point reliable blanks became harder to obtain. I had the great fortune to be entrusted with many of Frank Kaspar's tools and unused blanks. These were given to me by Ray Kaspar, Frank's son. 3. Frank Kaspar did in fact use commercial blanks from time to time. In my articles there are pictures of Selmer, Yamaha, Woodwind, and other makes that Kaspar experimented with and sometimes used after filing the trademarks off. Good Kaspar mouthpieces still remain some of the finest ever made. There were no secrets or magic to their work, just decades of hard work and craftsmanship.

Finally, Frank Kaspar and his cousin Frank L. (Louis) Kaspar, both worked in Chicago till 1950. that year Frank L. moved to Ann Arbor, and Frank stayed in the city until 1964. Sorry to take up so much space. Have a great day!

David Tuttle

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Seeking info on a Frank Kaspar Mouthpiece
Author: Arnoldstang 
Date:   2018-12-30 22:36

In the spirit of the season I appreciate all the contributors here. Bob Bernardo has perhaps overcompensated for legal restrictions on the use of Kaspar’s name in his products. He avoids even using the name in his posts and that might be causing confusion here. Bob shares his experiences of a lifetime, unravelling the complicated mysteries of the clarinet. Obviously he loves to share.
David Tuttle’s article in the clarinet is wonderful. It’s a fascinating glimpse back in time.
Thanks Bob and David et al.

Freelance woodwind performer

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Seeking info on a Frank Kaspar Mouthpiece
Author: Dan Shusta 
Date:   2018-12-31 03:18

Arnoldstand,

Concerning your comments about Bob Bernardo, when Omar L. Henderson, (The Doctor), gained full ownership rights to the trademarked names Kasper and Chedeville, many legal "Cease and Desist" letters were sent out to anyone who used those names in their advertisements.

Almost all mouthpiece craftsmen immediately deleted those two names entirely. Grabner simply changed his Kasper line to his "K" line of mouthpieces.

I was privy to learn of the verbal content of these letters and I must admit, the language used was quite scary to me.

I leave it to others to determine if what Mr. Henderson did was truly useful or not.



Reply To Message
 
 Re: Seeking info on a Frank Kaspar Mouthpiece
Author: Bob Bernardo 
Date:   2018-12-31 12:54

He's dangerous. Not just because of the trade name but his bore oils can spoil. I won't use his products as they could be spoiled. I wouldn't want to play a horn with soiled oil on it.

Yes Omar sent me a letter too and responded saying I have enough money to fight him in court, so the only people that win are the attorneys. So far he hasn't done anything. It's been about 2 years now. I'm not afraid of him because I have a ton of money to fight a lawsuit for 50 years. Appeals and more appeals. It won't be over in a few weeks, nor a few decades.

Protest supporting this kind of behavior.


NEWLY DESIGNED - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces


Yamaha Artist




Post Edited (2018-12-31 13:15)

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Seeking info on a Frank Kaspar Mouthpiece
Author: J. J. 
Date:   2018-12-31 22:27

It's worth noting that although I have heard similar stories regarding the Chedeville and Kaspar brand names, the company has since been sold and the brand will relaunch in 2019 under JodyJazz. I can't say if the same overzealous legal protectionism will continue, but it won't be at the direction of Dr. Henderson.



Post Edited (2018-12-31 22:28)

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Seeking info on a Frank Kaspar Mouthpiece
Author: Ken. 
Date:   2019-01-01 09:49

Thanks for the replies.

I actually haven't received the mouthpiece yet, as it is comes with a clarinet that I just bought and is currently being shipped.

I will see how it plays, then decide what to do with it.

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Seeking info on a Frank Kaspar Mouthpiece
Author: DaveT 
Date:   2019-01-18 18:31

I feel that one important point still needs to be made about Kaspar mouthpieces. Numbers such as 11, 13, 14, 16,etc., NEVER referred to the bore size. This is incorrect and misleading. While it is true that some Kaspars may have had slightly different tips then marked, the numbers stamped on the mouthpieces ALWAYS indicated the tip opening. What can be said is that EVERY part of a Kaspar mouthpiece had equal importance. Tip, baffle, chamber, bore, were all treated with the same degree of care. Once again, I reference Rick Sayre, the only person Frank Kaspar trained to make and reface mouthpieces.

David Tuttle

Reply To Message
 
 Re: Seeking info on a Frank Kaspar Mouthpiece
Author: Vytas 
Date:   2019-01-24 19:33

The original Kaspar Cicero mouthpieces ALWAYS indicated the tip opening in MILLIMETERS.

11 = 1.11 mm = (.0435") tip opening
13 = 1.13 mm = (.0445") tip opening
14 = 1.14 mm = (.0450") tip opening
16 = 1.16 mm = (.0455") tip opening
etc.

Vytas Krass
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Professional clarinet technician
Former professional clarinet player




Reply To Message
 Avail. Forums  |  Threaded View   Newer Topic  |  Older Topic 


 Avail. Forums  |  Need a Login? Register Here 
 User Login
 User Name:
 Password:
 Remember my login:
   
 Forgot Your Password?
Enter your email address or user name below and a new password will be sent to the email address associated with your profile.
Search Woodwind.Org

Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale

The Clarinet Pages
is sponsored by:

For Sale
Put your ads for items you'd like to sell here. Free! Please, no more than two at a time - ads removed after two weeks.

Music & Books
CDs, Sheet Music, and some of the greatest reference books ever written!

Events
Major events especially for clarinetists

Service
Instrument repairs, restorations, adjustments, and overhauls.

Mouthpieces & Barrels
Fine makers of mouthpieces and barrels, from wood to crystal to hard rubber and plastic

Instruments
Retailers and manufacturers of clarinets, both modern and early replica

Miscellaneous
Services and products too varied to categorize! Repair, recording, news

Accessories
Accessories that every clarinetist needs - reed makers and shapers, ligatures, greases, oils, and preservatives ... and more!

Reeds
Great reeds available from around the world

 
     Copyright © Woodwind.Org, Inc. All Rights Reserved    Privacy Policy    Contact charette@woodwind.org