 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: mmatisoff
Date: 2018-12-23 04:22
I live in Kentucky, where the weather varies by the minute. I practice in the morning and evening. Right now house is warm for winter. I build up a lot of condensation as I play and it seriously affects the quality of the notes played. One person told me just to blow out the moisture (which works), but I have a wood clarinet. I also use drying paper. Does blowing out the moisture out from under the pads have long term effects of the wood even though I dry it thoroughly. IOW, does moisture still seep into the wood?
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2018-12-23 05:07
While you are playing, excess condensation in a tone hole can cause a gurgling sound or no note at all to come out. A common place for this to occur is the lowest side key (Eb/Bb). Other than making a practice session or live performance less than perfect, there is no deleterious effect caused by this build up. It will dry out once you swab out the horn and put it away.
The other negative effect of condensation is that it makes the wood (and cork....which is wood too!) expand. This in itself is not really too much of an issue if you take your clarinet apart after you've finished playing on it and just wipe the access moisture from the sockets with your swab (top and bottom of barrel, top of bottom joint and top of bell). If however, you keep your horn together for hours and hours (or worse, days and days) between playing sessions, the corks will compress and you'll get wobble which may cause issues of tuning while you play or worse having a something come apart and fall to the floor when you don't want that to happen.
The moisture under normal circumstances (with regular swabbing while you play) is no problem.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2018-12-23 06:29
mmatisoff wrote:
> I build up a lot of condensation as I play and it
> seriously affects the quality of the notes played. One person
> told me just to blow out the moisture (which works), but I have
> a wood clarinet. I also use drying paper.
Did the person who told you to blow out the water mention swabbing the clarinet at the same time? A quick blow into the tone hole to stop a note from gurgling is a very temporary fix by itself, because the water will just run back - it has to go somewhere when you blow it back into the bore. If you can (certainly when you're practicing or rehearsing) it's a more lasting solution if you run your swab part-way through, stopping at a point where it's under the hole with the water in it, then blowing the water back into the swab, which will carry any water in the bore out of the instrument. Or just blow the water back into the bore and then swab. In a performance, you may need to use drying paper or a corner of your swab under the pad to get you to the next long rest or space between pieces and then do a more thorough job of blowing and swabbing.
I use drying papers, too, but I don't find them as effective as having the swab under the hole to absorb the moisture from the inside.
This is part of playing a wind instrument, especially one with tone holes (brass players have other ways to deal with condensation).
> Does blowing out the
> moisture out from under the pads have long term effects of the
> wood even though I dry it thoroughly. IOW, does moisture still
> seep into the wood?
No. But you should be swabbing the instrument periodically and when you pack the clarinet up in its case. Don't put the instrument away dripping water down its bore.
Karl
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2018-12-23 18:29
The degree of the problem may vary with how much condensation you have in your mouth while you play. That in turn may vary with your level of hydration, diet, and timing of meals. I once asked my dentist if there is medication to reduce the amount of condensation in my mouth, and he said there is, but because of side effects like dehydration they would not recommend it for non-medical purposes.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2018-12-23 21:46
Dear Philip,
The amount of saliva in your mouth is inconsequential to the amount of condensation in the clarinet (unless there are non-blowing moments in between when you are actually blowing where whatever is in your mouth begins to pour through the orifice created by inert reed and mouthpiece). The CONDENSATION in the clarinet is a product of the nearly 100 degree Fahrenheit air inside your lungs hitting the internal surface of the clarinet which is cooler than 100 degrees. Similarly, a cold glass of ice tea will sweat all over your good furniture.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: marcia
Date: 2018-12-24 01:06
>and just wipe the access moisture from the sockets with your swab
Or maybe you want to use something other than the swab to clean the sockets. Morrie Backun pointed out to me that it's not such a good idea to have the cork grease from the sockets smeared on the bore of the instrument. Since then I have always used a cotton ball to clean the sockets.
Just a thought...….
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2018-12-24 01:12
Karl gives very sensible advice, it's what I like to do as well.
In addition, if any specific tone hole(s) has been problematical, then at the end of the playing session, following bore swabbing, I take the individual joint and cover the open holes/keys as normal, close the lower end of the joint with my hand, then blow down the joint and operate the affected key. This forces out any water remaining in the tonehole.
A bit of absorbant paper under the pad can help keep the pad dry.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2018-12-24 02:34
Dear Marcia,
I ask only because I have never heard that before. What is the problem that could be caused by having cork grease (the white stuff in the chapstick style tubes) come in contact with the bore?
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2018-12-24 03:23
From my experience with the temporary correction of blowing moisture out of tone holes, it's best to blow away from keys, and especially needle springs, when you can. Repeatedly wetting needle springs will hasten their corrosion and demise. I had one in particular (lh sliver) break twice in just a few years, the second one having been installed new, until I realized what I was doing and changed how I position the clarinet when I blow into / across tone holes.
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Author: marcia
Date: 2018-12-24 05:44
Paul
Morrie did not go in to detail, but I think he was suggesting that if you always swabbed the sockets with your swab, then swabbed the bore, eventually there could be a slight build up of cork grease in the bore. I don't think it's supposed to be there.
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Author: Windy Dreamer
Date: 2018-12-24 17:29
If you clean sockets with your swab there is a good chance that you could block tone holes with gobs of cork grease and other gunk. I clean my sockets with papertowels, making sure there is no accumation of crud anywhere in the socket or tenon.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2018-12-24 17:54
Windy Dreamer wrote:
> If you clean sockets with your swab there is a good chance that
> you could block tone holes with gobs of cork grease and other
> gunk.
Probably true if there are gobs of cork grease and other gunk in the sockets to begin with. There shouldn't be. Enough to block tone holes? I've never found it to be a problem.
Karl
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Author: Windy Dreamer
Date: 2018-12-24 18:23
I have had several used clarinets with hardened crud in the sockets and gobs of cork grease throughot the clarinet. I have also had several with tone holes plugged at the bottom with accumulated crud. I assume it was deposited there with dirty swabs.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2018-12-24 19:25
Well, here is an interesting problem that a friend of mine had over the course of time.
Some of the lowest notes of the lower register of his clarinet have gotten flatter over the years. I got a chance to take a quick visual of the horn which has always been meticulously cared for and it looked virtually brand new (probably a fifty year old horn). I did at the time surmise that maybe there was some "gunk" impacted onto the undercutting but was not able to follow up on that theory.
Recently at a wonderful repair place in the area (Onks Woodwind Specialists) the proprietor was telling me he can surgically lower the pitch on various lower register notes by subtly adding a little nail polish to the under cutting (the effect is much less on the corresponding upper register note).
I say this only to support the idea that the cork grease warning has merit, and no matter how careful we are with our horns, a thorough check of the tone holes (thumb tube and undercutting) once a year (all keys off) at least would be a good idea.
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2018-12-24 22:58
Windy Dreamer wrote:
> I have had several used clarinets with hardened crud in the
> sockets and gobs of cork grease throughout the clarinet. I have
> also had several with tone holes plugged at the bottom with
> accumulated crud. I assume it was deposited there with dirty
> swabs.
There's no way to be sure how the gunk got built up that way either in the sockets, on the tenon bases or in the tone holes, You *can* suspect that it was sloppily (if at all) cared for by someone, likely a child, who neither understood nor cared about what cork grease is for. Dirt can also build up in water left in tone holes when the instrument isn't swabbed at all.
I'm not suggesting that this *can't* happen from running a dirty swab through the bore. I'm only suggesting that this kind of gunk transfer shouldn't happen if the clarinet is well maintained because the gunk shouldn't be building up in the sockets or on the tenons to begin with.
This does bring up a tangential issue about using cork grease. It's meant to lubricate the corks, not to coat them. The job can be done properly with only a slight smear of grease on your fingertip which is then worked over the cork surface. I've had students come in with so much grease (and the dust it attracts) built up at the base of each tenon that it needed to be scraped off with a screwdriver blade. This often is the result of the student's (mis)use of the chapstick type of cork grease applicator - they just press the stick down, run it around the circumference of the cork, and then push the joint together. *Sometimes* they actually smooth the grease deposit out with their fingers first. Of course, all the extra simply gets pushed down into the base of the tenon and the top of the socket. Excess grease also squeezes out around the joint when it's assembled, then often migrates to the keys.
Also tangentially, no one should be using "dirty" swabs. They are easily washed (for more reasons than possible cork grease), so rotating two or three of them between swabbing use and the washing machine should ensure that a reasonably clean swab is running through the clarinet.
Dry the sockets and the tenon bases with something other the swab if something else is handy - it isn't always unless you pack an additional cleaning rag for the purpose. But using your regular swab doesn't have to be a destructive act. And, if you see any kind of grease buildup around the joints, it should be cleaned up immediately and definitely not with the regular swab.
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2018-12-25 01:38
Hey Karl,
Though somewhat careful, I have seen some beige "stuff" build up at the interior base of tone holes (particularly those under pads where we don't usually see what's going on). When I first encountered this as a young student, I got to the issue a year or so down the road. Looking at the build up, it appeared almost like a part of the tone hole and I was reluctant to prod it. Taking a toothpick and lightly pushing on this area (which for all the world was a "shelf" at the interior rim of the tone hole) it began to give way and I convinced myself it should not be there.
Long story short, even with doing all the right things, I believe just having moisture and dust in the air will promote the "growth" of this stuff in tone holes over time (much like stalactites in caves).
Just check and clean with some regularity........it does affect the pitch and response of the horn.
....................Paul Aviles
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Author: Jarmo Hyvakko
Date: 2018-12-26 10:19
It's a good idea not only blow the moisture to the swab in the bore, but also dry the pad with paper (or the upper right corner of the clarinet part)
Man has gone to the moon and invented a tooth paste with stripes, but hasn't found a way to prevent moisture from e flat and c sharp keys.
Jarmo Hyvakko, Principal Clarinet, Tampere Philharmonic, Finland
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2018-12-27 01:23
Well...........
I can't say it is always a winner, but instead of lining up my reed/table with the register key (as I look down past the underside of my horn), I have the reed more to the "6:30" position.....or even further out that way. This way the horn leans so that the "trickle" will be right in between the Eb/Bb side key and the RH sliver key.
I haven't had ANY moisture issues since taking this posture in the last six months.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2018-12-28 18:04
Conensation or saliva? I think to many people confuse the two in this case. My mouth as always formed a lot of saliva so I have always had to swab out constantly. Often in a recital I'd have to swab between pieces and sometimes after a long movement or I'd my pads would get soaked. Even when playing bass clarinet I'd often have to swab the neck and use a push through to dry the top joint at concerts. I've seen players play an entire half a concert-recital and never have to swab. If it were just condensation you're talking about it would be the same for all players on same stage at the same time, it isn't. I have to swab out many more times than my colleagues. Most condensation accures when the instrument is cool and you blow warm air into it but once it's warmed up in a warm room or hall it equalizers and there's very little condensation but you are still blowing saliva into the clarinet, some people more than others like me. My dentist agrees totally when he-she cleans the built up calcium off my teeth.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2018-12-28 19:24
My situation is like Ed's regarding saliva production. It appears that people vary quite a lot in that.
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